December 2011 - mpi-forum - mailman3.cels.anl.gov

Re: [Mpi-forum] Jan MPI Forum meeting
by Jeff Squyres 12 Dec '11

12 Dec '11

Agreed. 2nd votes take very little time. On Dec 12, 2011, at 5:45 PM, Martin Schulz wrote: > On Dec 12, 2011, at 12:01 PM, Graham, Richard L. wrote: > >> I will fix this - my apologies. > > Thanks - I image that if we would lump all the second votes into a single session, we could get them all done in 45-60min. > > Martin > > >> >> Rich >> >> On Dec 12, 2011, at 1:36 PM, Martin Schulz wrote: >> >>> Hi Rich, >>> >>> I just looked over the agenda and noticed that the second votes for 266 (MPI_T) and 204 (get_library_version) fell off - I had requested these early on (back in November) and I am pretty sure we had them in earlier drafts of the agenda. Could you please add them back in? Neither one should take very long and could be combined with other second votes. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> On Dec 12, 2011, at 9:01 AM, Graham, Richard L. wrote: >>> >>>> Just a few items: >>>> - Those wanting to have a room in the block of room reserved at the Residence Inn has until 12/23/2012 to reserve a room >>>> - The agenda for the meeting is full now. I will not be able to take any more requests at this stage. >>>> >>>> Rich >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> mpi-forum mailing list >>>> mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>>> http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi-forum >>> >>> ________________________________________________________________________ >>> Martin Schulz, schulzm(a)llnl.gov, http://people.llnl.gov/schulzm >>> CASC @ Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Livermore, USA >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mpi-forum mailing list >>> mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>> http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi-forum >> > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Martin Schulz, schulzm(a)llnl.gov, http://people.llnl.gov/schulzm > CASC @ Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Livermore, USA > > > > > _______________________________________________ > mpi-forum mailing list > mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi-forum -- Jeff Squyres jsquyres(a)cisco.com For corporate legal information go to: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/

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Re: [Mpi-forum] Jan MPI Forum meeting
by Martin Schulz 12 Dec '11

12 Dec '11

On Dec 12, 2011, at 12:01 PM, Graham, Richard L. wrote: > I will fix this - my apologies. Thanks - I image that if we would lump all the second votes into a single session, we could get them all done in 45-60min. Martin > > Rich > > On Dec 12, 2011, at 1:36 PM, Martin Schulz wrote: > >> Hi Rich, >> >> I just looked over the agenda and noticed that the second votes for 266 (MPI_T) and 204 (get_library_version) fell off - I had requested these early on (back in November) and I am pretty sure we had them in earlier drafts of the agenda. Could you please add them back in? Neither one should take very long and could be combined with other second votes. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Martin >> >> >> On Dec 12, 2011, at 9:01 AM, Graham, Richard L. wrote: >> >>> Just a few items: >>> - Those wanting to have a room in the block of room reserved at the Residence Inn has until 12/23/2012 to reserve a room >>> - The agenda for the meeting is full now. I will not be able to take any more requests at this stage. >>> >>> Rich >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mpi-forum mailing list >>> mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>> http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi-forum >> >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> Martin Schulz, schulzm(a)llnl.gov, http://people.llnl.gov/schulzm >> CASC @ Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Livermore, USA >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> mpi-forum mailing list >> mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >> http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi-forum > ________________________________________________________________________ Martin Schulz, schulzm(a)llnl.gov, http://people.llnl.gov/schulzm CASC @ Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Livermore, USA

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Re: [Mpi-forum] Jan MPI Forum meeting
by Graham, Richard L. 12 Dec '11

12 Dec '11

I will fix this - my apologies. Rich On Dec 12, 2011, at 1:36 PM, Martin Schulz wrote: > Hi Rich, > > I just looked over the agenda and noticed that the second votes for 266 (MPI_T) and 204 (get_library_version) fell off - I had requested these early on (back in November) and I am pretty sure we had them in earlier drafts of the agenda. Could you please add them back in? Neither one should take very long and could be combined with other second votes. > > Thanks, > > Martin > > > On Dec 12, 2011, at 9:01 AM, Graham, Richard L. wrote: > >> Just a few items: >> - Those wanting to have a room in the block of room reserved at the Residence Inn has until 12/23/2012 to reserve a room >> - The agenda for the meeting is full now. I will not be able to take any more requests at this stage. >> >> Rich >> _______________________________________________ >> mpi-forum mailing list >> mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >> http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi-forum > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Martin Schulz, schulzm(a)llnl.gov, http://people.llnl.gov/schulzm > CASC @ Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Livermore, USA > > > > > _______________________________________________ > mpi-forum mailing list > mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi-forum

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Re: [Mpi-forum] Jan MPI Forum meeting
by Fab Tillier 12 Dec '11

12 Dec '11

To add to that, I don't see a second vote for ticket 279 (optional C++ bindings). This should be just as fast as any other second vote. Why aren't all tickets that had their 1st vote automatically scheduled for a 2nd vote if the implementation status isn't "waiting"? Note too that the agenda lists ticket 278 as the ticket number for MPI_Icomm_dup, which is wrong. Similarly, the C++ bindings ticket is listed as #168, but I'm guessing this should be #281. Cheers, -Fab Martin Schulz wrote on Mon, 12 Dec 2011 at 10:36:48 > Hi Rich, > > I just looked over the agenda and noticed that the second votes for 266 > (MPI_T) and 204 (get_library_version) fell off - I had requested these early > on (back in November) and I am pretty sure we had them in earlier drafts of > the agenda. Could you please add them back in? Neither one should take > very long and could be combined with other second votes. > > Thanks, > > Martin > > > On Dec 12, 2011, at 9:01 AM, Graham, Richard L. wrote: > >> Just a few items: >> - Those wanting to have a room in the block of room reserved at the >> Residence Inn has until 12/23/2012 to reserve a room - The agenda for >> the meeting is full now. I will not be able to take any > more requests at this stage. >> >> Rich >> _______________________________________________ >> mpi-forum mailing list >> mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >> http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi-forum > > __________________________________________________________ > ______________ Martin Schulz, schulzm(a)llnl.gov, > http://people.llnl.gov/schulzm CASC @ Lawrence Livermore National > Laboratory, Livermore, USA > > > > > _______________________________________________ > mpi-forum mailing list > mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi-forum

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Re: [Mpi-forum] Jan MPI Forum meeting
by Martin Schulz 12 Dec '11

12 Dec '11

Hi Rich, I just looked over the agenda and noticed that the second votes for 266 (MPI_T) and 204 (get_library_version) fell off - I had requested these early on (back in November) and I am pretty sure we had them in earlier drafts of the agenda. Could you please add them back in? Neither one should take very long and could be combined with other second votes. Thanks, Martin On Dec 12, 2011, at 9:01 AM, Graham, Richard L. wrote: > Just a few items: > - Those wanting to have a room in the block of room reserved at the Residence Inn has until 12/23/2012 to reserve a room > - The agenda for the meeting is full now. I will not be able to take any more requests at this stage. > > Rich > _______________________________________________ > mpi-forum mailing list > mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi-forum ________________________________________________________________________ Martin Schulz, schulzm(a)llnl.gov, http://people.llnl.gov/schulzm CASC @ Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Livermore, USA

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Ticket #217 scheduled for Formal Reading at Jan 2012 meeting
by Douglas Miller 12 Dec '11

12 Dec '11

Ticket #217 (https://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/ticket/217) is scheduled for a Formal Reading at the January, 2012 Forum Meeting in San Jose. The document attached to the ticket is the "External Interfaces" chapter, modified to add this proposal. Look for the "ticket217" marker. I've also attached that document to this e-mail. thanks, (See attached file: mpi3-ticket217-ei-2.pdf) _______________________________________________ Douglas Miller BlueGene Messaging Development IBM Corp., Rochester, MN USA Bldg 030-2 A401 dougmill(a)us.ibm.com Douglas Miller/Rochester/IBM

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Jan MPI Forum meeting
by Graham, Richard L. 12 Dec '11

12 Dec '11

Just a few items: - Those wanting to have a room in the block of room reserved at the Residence Inn has until 12/23/2012 to reserve a room - The agenda for the meeting is full now. I will not be able to take any more requests at this stage. Rich

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Re: [Mpi-forum] Jan meeting
by Torsten Hoefler 11 Dec '11

11 Dec '11

Hi Rich, Thanks for adding those! I am sorry but the discussions on the RMA telecon on Friday created two new tickets that the RMA group would like to read. Both tickets are slightly above ticket 0 changes but very simple (shouldn't take longer than 15 minutes each, but we never know). So please also add readings of #308 and #309 (both from the RMA working group) to the agenda. All the Best, Torsten On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 10:15:17AM -0600, Torsten Hoefler wrote: > Hi Rich, > > The agenda for the Jan meeting has been updated - there are still > > about 3 hours of time available for additional items. > You forgot the requests from the collective WG, see my email to the list > from Sun, 13 Nov 2011 16:14:59: > > 1) reading of #168 (MPI_Icomm_dup) -- at least 45 mins > 2) reading of #264 (scalable vector collectives) -- at least 45 mins > > The discussion around #284 shouldn't take two hours on Tue and it's > handled by the RMA group now (we requested 1hr). > > Thanks & Best, > Torsten > > -- > bash$ :(){ :|:&};: --------------------- http://www.unixer.de/ ----- > Torsten Hoefler | Performance Modeling and Simulation Lead > Blue Waters Directorate | University of Illinois (UIUC) > 1205 W Clark Street | Urbana, IL, 61801 > NCSA Building | +01 (217) 244-7736 > _______________________________________________ > mpi-forum mailing list > mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi-forum > -- bash$ :(){ :|:&};: --------------------- http://www.unixer.de/ ----- Torsten Hoefler | Performance Modeling and Simulation Lead Blue Waters Directorate | University of Illinois (UIUC) 1205 W Clark Street | Urbana, IL, 61801 NCSA Building | +01 (217) 244-7736

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Re: [Mpi-forum] Boost MPI as a C++ binding replacement
by Fab Tillier 09 Dec '11

09 Dec '11

I believe the argument wasn't that Boost MPI was complete, but rather that the Boost MPI model was a better fit for C++ than the MPI standard C++ bindings. To me, the current state of having the C++ bindings deprecated, yet adding new deprecated bindings for only a subset of MPI-3 functionality is terrible - it is inconsistent and sloppy. I would like the standard to be consistent, and at this point it seems that the "move the C++ bindings to a removed chapter" (ticket 281) idea has the broadest support. I don't think anybody that has been vocal against removing the C++ bindings has been willing to step up to the plate and drive a proposal, unfortunately, partly because the straw votes held at the past few Forum meetings showed that investing in a proposal would be futile. Personally, as long as the C++ bindings are optional, I don't really care what happens to them and could likely be convinced to support undeprecating them. Cheers, -Fab Jeff Hammond wrote on Thu, 8 Dec 2011 at 15:58:35 > Lots of people have commented that Boost MPI is better than the standard > C++ bindings and cited it as an example of why the C++ bindings are > unnecessary. I think that everyone who feels this way should inspect > http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_48_0/doc/html/mpi/tutorial.html#mpi.c_ > mapping. > > Consider the things that Boost MPI explicitly states that it does not support: > > MPI_Bsend > MPI_Bsend_init > MPI_Buffer_attach > MPI_Buffer_detach > MPI_Ibsend > MPI_Irsend > MPI_Issend > MPI_PROC_NULL > MPI_Recv_init > MPI_Request_free > MPI_Rsend > MPI_Rsend_init > MPI_Sendrecv > MPI_Sendrecv_replace > MPI_Send_init > MPI_Ssend > MPI_Ssend_init > MPI_Start > MPI_Startall > MPI_Reduce_scatter > MPI_MAXLOC > MPI_MINLOC > MPI_Group_range_incl > MPI_Group_range_excl > MPI_NULL_COPY_FN > MPI_NULL_DELETE_FN > MPI_KEYVAL_INVALID > MPI_Keyval_create > MPI_Copy_function > MPI_Delete_function > MPI_Keyval_free > MPI_Attr_put > MPI_Attr_get > MPI_Attr_delete > MPI_Cart_createMPI_Dims_create > MPI_Cartdim_get > MPI_Cart_get > MPI_Cart_rank > MPI_Cart_coords > MPI_Cart_shift > MPI_Cart_sub > MPI_Cart_map > MPI_Graph_map > PMPI_* routines > MPI_Pcontrol > > They don't even both to mention that they do not support RMA, MPI-IO, > MPI_Init_thread and a bunch of other functions I've left out because > they weren't mentioned on the Boost MPI page. > > So yeah, my point is that Boost MPI is not even close to a reasonable > replacement for C++ bindings and it suggests that third-party C++ > bindings are unlikely to support more than a handful of very popular > MPI functions. > > Best, > > Jeff >

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Boost MPI as a C++ binding replacement
by Jeff Hammond 08 Dec '11

08 Dec '11

Lots of people have commented that Boost MPI is better than the standard C++ bindings and cited it as an example of why the C++ bindings are unnecessary. I think that everyone who feels this way should inspect http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_48_0/doc/html/mpi/tutorial.html#mpi.c_mappi…. Consider the things that Boost MPI explicitly states that it does not support: MPI_Bsend MPI_Bsend_init MPI_Buffer_attach MPI_Buffer_detach MPI_Ibsend MPI_Irsend MPI_Issend MPI_PROC_NULL MPI_Recv_init MPI_Request_free MPI_Rsend MPI_Rsend_init MPI_Sendrecv MPI_Sendrecv_replace MPI_Send_init MPI_Ssend MPI_Ssend_init MPI_Start MPI_Startall MPI_Reduce_scatter MPI_MAXLOC MPI_MINLOC MPI_Group_range_incl MPI_Group_range_excl MPI_NULL_COPY_FN MPI_NULL_DELETE_FN MPI_KEYVAL_INVALID MPI_Keyval_create MPI_Copy_function MPI_Delete_function MPI_Keyval_free MPI_Attr_put MPI_Attr_get MPI_Attr_delete MPI_Cart_createMPI_Dims_create MPI_Cartdim_get MPI_Cart_get MPI_Cart_rank MPI_Cart_coords MPI_Cart_shift MPI_Cart_sub MPI_Cart_map MPI_Graph_map PMPI_* routines MPI_Pcontrol They don't even both to mention that they do not support RMA, MPI-IO, MPI_Init_thread and a bunch of other functions I've left out because they weren't mentioned on the Boost MPI page. So yeah, my point is that Boost MPI is not even close to a reasonable replacement for C++ bindings and it suggests that third-party C++ bindings are unlikely to support more than a handful of very popular MPI functions. Best, Jeff -- Jeff Hammond Argonne Leadership Computing Facility University of Chicago Computation Institute jhammond(a)alcf.anl.gov / (630) 252-5381 http://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffhammond https://wiki-old.alcf.anl.gov/index.php/User:Jhammond

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