February 2014 - mpi-forum - mailman3.cels.anl.gov

Re: [Mpi-forum] MPI-next
by N.M. Maclaren 22 Feb '14

22 Feb '14

On Feb 22 2014, Rolf Rabenseifner wrote: > >as input for your discussions I'll give you some background about the >MPI-2.1/2.2/3.0 book selling which includes some lessens learned, >which may influence your decisions on MPI-3.1 and 4.0, >see conclusions at the end. An alternate view: >- About 30% of MPI programmers who physically get in touch with the book, > buy the book (it is the cheapest useful screen extension they can buy ;-) > > ==> I expect a similar rate in the MPI Forum Yes, indeed, but NOT among the MPI-using community as a whole. Few people have much difficulty actually using the MPI facilities, once over the initial learning curve, and rarely look at ANY reference on it. Their ongoing problems are almost all due to the management of the data and its distribution (surprise, surprise!) A high proportion of them program from multiple locations, usually work and home, but often have multiple offices, and some do design and/or coding at external meetings. I doubt that even 30% of the MPI-using community look at the actual standard more than a couple of times a year and, for those people, it isn't just the price but the shelf space and weight of a 1,000 page book (which is what MPI 4.0 will be). In Cambridge, I doubt that more than 5% of the MPI-using community would buy the book even the offer and book were delivered to their desk. But we have always been one of the most distributed and network-centric universities in the world. It might be higher elsewhere. Regards, Nick Maclaren.

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Re: [Mpi-forum] MPI-next
by Rolf Rabenseifner 22 Feb '14

22 Feb '14

Dear all, as input for your discussions I'll give you some background about the MPI-2.1/2.2/3.0 book selling which includes some lessens learned, which may influence your decisions on MPI-3.1 and 4.0, see conclusions at the end. Facts and implications: - Oct.2012 - Feb.2014 we sold 2238 MPI books which is 33 books/month. ==> Currently remaining 455 MPI-3.0 books will be sold out about end of March 2015 - It is no problem to have 100 unsold books at the end. - Print-on-demand does not work for the size of the MPI book. - Normal printing via a publisher does not work for that low price. - We have to produce about 1000 books to keep the price such low, i.e., 25$ plus shipping or 19.50 Euro plus shipping ==> Selling time should be about 30 month. - About 30% of MPI programmers who physically get in touch with the book, buy the book (it is the cheapest useful screen extension they can buy ;-) ==> I expect a similar rate in the MPI Forum ==> Therefore, I expect that the 70% non-MPI-book-buying majority in the forum is mainly deciding for the 30% MPI-book-buying minority. I hope that this majority keeps this in mind and makes good decisions for the minority. Conclusions: ------------ The second option > - MPI 3.1 for minor additions and incl. errata, > MPI 4.0 for Major additions together with > In particular, we discussed shooting for making the March > meeting the last one during which additions for MPI 3.1 could be > read, which would get us to a standard by December. seems to be really good. It implies the printed book at end of Jan. 2015. The major question is the time-line for MPI-4.0 which should be from the book publisher's view-point June 2017 (about 30 month after 3.1). Reality showed the total MPI-3.0 process needed 58 month, from Dec.2007 - Sep.2012. The MPI-4.0 project started already within MPI-3.0, >From MPI-3.0 Sep. 2012 until projected MPI-4.0 June 2017 will be again 58 month, which seems a healthy plan. New standards need not only to be implemented, the implementations also need to be optimized, and both needs time. Previous and next colors for MPI books in the rainbow: 2.1 yellow 2.2 orange (yellow and orange were in wrong sequence) 3.0 green 3.1 perhaps cyan 4.0 perhaps blue (5.0 purple) This was more than only my 5 cents. Best regards Rolf PS: Total statistics - MPI-2.1 916 printed, 738 sold Jul.08 - Sep.09 (14 month) = 53 books/month - MPI-2.2 921 printed, 900 sold Oct.09 - Sep.12 (36 month) = 25 books/month - MPI-3.0 1055 printed, 600 sold Oct.12 - Feb.13 (17 month) = 35 books/month ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Martin Schulz" <schulzm(a)llnl.gov> > To: "Main MPI Forum mailing list" <mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> > Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 5:02:07 AM > Subject: [Mpi-forum] MPI-next > > Hi all, > > During the last MPI forum meeting in Chicago we had a discussion on > what MPI-next should be and by when we should have it out. We > basically looked at five options: > > - Skip any MPI 3.x and go straight to MPI 4.0 > - MPI 3.1 for minor additions and incl. errata, MPI 4.0 for major > additions > - MPI 3.1 only for errata, MPI 4.0 for anything else > - MPI 3.1 for errata, MPI 3.2 for small enhancements, then MPI 4.0 > - MPI 3.0.1 for errata, MPI 3.1 for small enhancements, then MPI 4.0 > > Out of those, the majority favored the second option - create an MPI > 3.1 that includes errata and minor additions, followed by an MPI 4.0 > later. We left what is minor and what is not out of the discussion > for now, though, with the idea to look at the tickets that are ready > one by one. Further, a majority favored a rather short timeline for > MPI 3.1. In particular, we discussed shooting for making the March > meeting the last one during which additions for MPI 3.1 could be > read, which would get us to a standard by December. > > If someone feels this is too short of a timeline and would cause > important things for MPI 3.1 to not be included, please speak up and > we can continue the discussion over email. > > Thanks, > > Martin > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Martin Schulz, schulzm(a)llnl.gov, http://people.llnl.gov/schulzm > CASC @ Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Livermore, USA > > > > _______________________________________________ > mpi-forum mailing list > mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi-forum > -- Dr. Rolf Rabenseifner . . . . . . . . . .. email rabenseifner(a)hlrs.de High Performance Computing Center (HLRS) . phone ++49(0)711/685-65530 University of Stuttgart . . . . . . . . .. fax ++49(0)711 / 685-65832 Head of Dpmt Parallel Computing . . . www.hlrs.de/people/rabenseifner Nobelstr. 19, D-70550 Stuttgart, Germany . . . . (Office: Room 1.307)

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Re: [Mpi-forum] Hotel rooms for the MPI Forum meeting
by Richard Graham 20 Feb '14

20 Feb '14

Turns out that we have until today to make reservations, so if anyone else is interested in a reservation, please let me know ASAP. Thanks, Rich From: mpi-forum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Richard Graham Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 10:17 AM To: mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org Cc: Annelise Dao Subject: [Mpi-forum] Hotel rooms for the MPI Forum meeting Annelise has secured a block of rooms for us at the Residence Inn in Milpitas at a rate of $189/night. If you want a room in the block please send me a request by TOMORROW, wed Feb the 19th. Please include checkin and checkout dates. Rich

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Updated agenda
by Schulz, Martin 20 Feb '14

20 Feb '14

Hi all, I updated the agenda for the March meeting - I think I captured the various requests I have gotten, but please double check and let me know if I missed something. Also, please note that due to large number of readings and plenary requests, I had to push the start of the plenaries forward even more: WGs will be Monday and Tuesday morning and plenaries will start on Tuesday at lunch and run for the rest of the meeting. One more item - as discussed at the last meeting, we will have a final vote on the new logo for the forum and the standard. Various versions of the three finalists (in color, gray scale and black/white) that we had last time are on the agenda page. The vote itself will be by institution during the regular vote block on Thursday. Thanks, Martin PS: Please don't forgot to register as soon as possible! ________________________________________________________________________ Martin Schulz, schulzm(a)llnl.gov, http://people.llnl.gov/schulzm CASC @ Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Livermore, USA

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Hotel rooms for the MPI Forum meeting
by Richard Graham 18 Feb '14

18 Feb '14

Annelise has secured a block of rooms for us at the Residence Inn in Milpitas at a rate of $189/night. If you want a room in the block please send me a request by TOMORROW, wed Feb the 19th. Please include checkin and checkout dates. Rich

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Re: [Mpi-forum] 3/14: Formal Readings
by Schulz, Martin 17 Feb '14

17 Feb '14

We don't really have a rule that tickets must come through the WG, although this is the preferred way. Let's consider this at least properly announced two weeks prior to the meeting just in case and I'll mark it for a potential reading. A discussion in the WG would be good and we can make a final decision on whether this should be read during the meeting. Martin On Feb 17, 2014, at 2:36 PM, Jeff Hammond <jeff.science(a)gmail.com> wrote: > As this ticket has not been endorsed by the associated WG, the > following request should be tabled until consensus has been achieved > within the WG. > > Jeff > > On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Rolf Rabenseifner <rabenseifner(a)hlrs.de> wrote: >> Dear all, >> >> an additional ticket ready for reading is #413. >> It is only an example, but it explains the role of MPI_WIN_SYNC >> which is unclear in MPI-3.0 for shared memory windows. >> >> Therefore a formal reading may be done only in the RMA >> working group, but for the case they want to read it at plenary, >> here is the announcment to the forum. >> >> Best regards >> Rolf >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Jim Dinan" <james.dinan(a)gmail.com> >>> To: "Main MPI Forum mailing list" <mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> >>> Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 4:35:51 PM >>> Subject: [Mpi-forum] 3/14: Formal Readings >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> >>> The RMA and Hybrid working groups would like to put forward the >>> following tickets for formal readings at the upcoming meeting: >>> >>> >>> #380 - Endpoints proposal >>> >>> >>> https://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/attachment/ticket/380/mpi-repo… >>> >>> >>> Read by: Pavan Balaji >>> >>> >>> #349, #402, #404 - Address arithmetic proposal >>> >>> >>> >>> https://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/attachment/ticket/349/review-3… >>> >>> >>> >>> Read by: David Goodell >>> #369 - Add same_disp_unit info key for RMA window creation >>> >>> >>> >>> https://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/attachment/ticket/369/mpi-repo… >>> >>> >>> >>> Read by: Pavan Balaji >>> >>> Please add these to the agenda. Unfortunately, I will not be able to >>> attend this meeting, so I have included a contact person for each >>> ticket. >>> >>> >>> Thanks! >>> ~Jim. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mpi-forum mailing list >>> mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>> http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi-forum >> >> -- >> Dr. Rolf Rabenseifner . . . . . . . . . .. email rabenseifner(a)hlrs.de >> High Performance Computing Center (HLRS) . phone ++49(0)711/685-65530 >> University of Stuttgart . . . . . . . . .. fax ++49(0)711 / 685-65832 >> Head of Dpmt Parallel Computing . . . www.hlrs.de/people/rabenseifner >> Nobelstr. 19, D-70550 Stuttgart, Germany . . . . (Office: Room 1.307) >> _______________________________________________ >> mpi-forum mailing list >> mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >> http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi-forum > > > > -- > Jeff Hammond > jeff.science(a)gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > mpi-forum mailing list > mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi-forum ________________________________________________________________________ Martin Schulz, schulzm(a)llnl.gov, http://people.llnl.gov/schulzm CASC @ Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Livermore, USA

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3/14: Formal Reading for ticket 273
by Quincey Koziol 17 Feb '14

17 Feb '14

Hi All, The I/O working group would like to put forward ticket #273 for a formal reading at the upcoming meeting: https://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/attachment/ticket/273/mpi-repo… Thanks, Quincey

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Re: [Mpi-forum] March Meeting Agenda
by Schulz, Martin 17 Feb '14

17 Feb '14

Hi Rolf, On Feb 17, 2014, at 4:47 AM, Rolf Rabenseifner <rabenseifner(a)hlrs.de> wrote: > Jeff, > > I cannot see it, neither logistics nor Agenda. > Do you have direct URLs for logistics and Agenda? The agenda page should work now after Jeff applied his magic, at least it does for me - here is the URL: http://meetings.mpi-forum.org/secretary/2014/03/agenda.php Let me know if you still have problems, Martin > > Best regards > Rolf > > ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jeff Squyres (jsquyres)" <jsquyres(a)cisco.com> >> To: "Martin Schulz" <schulzm(a)llnl.gov>, "Main MPI Forum mailing list" <mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> >> Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 12:31:41 PM >> Subject: Re: [Mpi-forum] March Meeting Agenda >> >> On Feb 16, 2014, at 12:18 PM, "Schulz, Martin" <schulzm(a)llnl.gov> >> wrote: >> >>> I uploaded the agenda for the March meeting yesterday based on the >>> feedback I have gotten so far. Unfortunately, it somehow doesn't >>> show up on the website (at least for me) >> >> Fixed. >> >> -- >> Jeff Squyres >> jsquyres(a)cisco.com >> For corporate legal information go to: >> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> mpi-forum mailing list >> mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >> http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi-forum >> > > -- > Dr. Rolf Rabenseifner . . . . . . . . . .. email rabenseifner(a)hlrs.de > High Performance Computing Center (HLRS) . phone ++49(0)711/685-65530 > University of Stuttgart . . . . . . . . .. fax ++49(0)711 / 685-65832 > Head of Dpmt Parallel Computing . . . www.hlrs.de/people/rabenseifner > Nobelstr. 19, D-70550 Stuttgart, Germany . . . . (Office: Room 1.307) > _______________________________________________ > mpi-forum mailing list > mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi-forum ________________________________________________________________________ Martin Schulz, schulzm(a)llnl.gov, http://people.llnl.gov/schulzm CASC @ Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Livermore, USA

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Re: [Mpi-forum] 3/14: Formal Readings
by Jeff Hammond 17 Feb '14

17 Feb '14

As this ticket has not been endorsed by the associated WG, the following request should be tabled until consensus has been achieved within the WG. Jeff On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Rolf Rabenseifner <rabenseifner(a)hlrs.de> wrote: > Dear all, > > an additional ticket ready for reading is #413. > It is only an example, but it explains the role of MPI_WIN_SYNC > which is unclear in MPI-3.0 for shared memory windows. > > Therefore a formal reading may be done only in the RMA > working group, but for the case they want to read it at plenary, > here is the announcment to the forum. > > Best regards > Rolf > > ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jim Dinan" <james.dinan(a)gmail.com> >> To: "Main MPI Forum mailing list" <mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> >> Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 4:35:51 PM >> Subject: [Mpi-forum] 3/14: Formal Readings >> >> >> >> Hi All, >> >> >> The RMA and Hybrid working groups would like to put forward the >> following tickets for formal readings at the upcoming meeting: >> >> >> #380 - Endpoints proposal >> >> >> https://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/attachment/ticket/380/mpi-repo… >> >> >> Read by: Pavan Balaji >> >> >> #349, #402, #404 - Address arithmetic proposal >> >> >> >> https://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/attachment/ticket/349/review-3… >> >> >> >> Read by: David Goodell >> #369 - Add same_disp_unit info key for RMA window creation >> >> >> >> https://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/attachment/ticket/369/mpi-repo… >> >> >> >> Read by: Pavan Balaji >> >> Please add these to the agenda. Unfortunately, I will not be able to >> attend this meeting, so I have included a contact person for each >> ticket. >> >> >> Thanks! >> ~Jim. >> _______________________________________________ >> mpi-forum mailing list >> mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >> http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi-forum > > -- > Dr. Rolf Rabenseifner . . . . . . . . . .. email rabenseifner(a)hlrs.de > High Performance Computing Center (HLRS) . phone ++49(0)711/685-65530 > University of Stuttgart . . . . . . . . .. fax ++49(0)711 / 685-65832 > Head of Dpmt Parallel Computing . . . www.hlrs.de/people/rabenseifner > Nobelstr. 19, D-70550 Stuttgart, Germany . . . . (Office: Room 1.307) > _______________________________________________ > mpi-forum mailing list > mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi-forum -- Jeff Hammond jeff.science(a)gmail.com

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Re: [Mpi-forum] 3/14: Formal Readings
by Rolf Rabenseifner 17 Feb '14

17 Feb '14

Dear all, an additional ticket ready for reading is #413. It is only an example, but it explains the role of MPI_WIN_SYNC which is unclear in MPI-3.0 for shared memory windows. Therefore a formal reading may be done only in the RMA working group, but for the case they want to read it at plenary, here is the announcment to the forum. Best regards Rolf ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Dinan" <james.dinan(a)gmail.com> > To: "Main MPI Forum mailing list" <mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> > Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 4:35:51 PM > Subject: [Mpi-forum] 3/14: Formal Readings > > > > Hi All, > > > The RMA and Hybrid working groups would like to put forward the > following tickets for formal readings at the upcoming meeting: > > > #380 - Endpoints proposal > > > https://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/attachment/ticket/380/mpi-repo… > > > Read by: Pavan Balaji > > > #349, #402, #404 - Address arithmetic proposal > > > > https://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/attachment/ticket/349/review-3… > > > > Read by: David Goodell > #369 - Add same_disp_unit info key for RMA window creation > > > > https://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/attachment/ticket/369/mpi-repo… > > > > Read by: Pavan Balaji > > Please add these to the agenda. Unfortunately, I will not be able to > attend this meeting, so I have included a contact person for each > ticket. > > > Thanks! > ~Jim. > _______________________________________________ > mpi-forum mailing list > mpi-forum(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi-forum -- Dr. Rolf Rabenseifner . . . . . . . . . .. email rabenseifner(a)hlrs.de High Performance Computing Center (HLRS) . phone ++49(0)711/685-65530 University of Stuttgart . . . . . . . . .. fax ++49(0)711 / 685-65832 Head of Dpmt Parallel Computing . . . www.hlrs.de/people/rabenseifner Nobelstr. 19, D-70550 Stuttgart, Germany . . . . (Office: Room 1.307)

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