Erez:
Please do not simply withdraw it. There are a substantial
portion of us who you convinced this was a good idea and
what I saw in the feedback was that some found that it
was outside the scope of 2.2. I think some of those people
still feel it is a good idea even if that is the case.
I hope you will press for 3.0.
Bronis
On Mon, 1 Jun 2009, Erez Haba wrote:
> With this feedback of my distinguish colleagues, I don't see any point of perusing this proposal and I will be withdrawing this ticket in the next mpi forum meeting.
>
> Thanks,
> .Erez
>
> From: mpi-22-bounces(a)lists.mpi-forum.org [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of William Gropp
> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 11:37 AM
> To: MPI 2.2
> Cc: Main MPI Forum mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Mpi-22] [Mpi-forum] The const proposal - Ticket 140
>
> This is an example of why we have two votes - to give everyone a chance to take a second look at the issues. I'll note that the 17-10 (counting no's and abstains together) is worrisome; while a majority vote is the rule, a good standard will make a compelling argument for each feature.
>
> The process here would normally be to have a debate and then the second vote. However, for MPI 2.2, we have the additional requirements of limited scope of change to implementations - we didn't define what that meant precisely (and that is a good thing), but there is a strong argument that limited scope of change would require at least a majority of implementations to agree that the change is minor.
>
> Bill
>
> On May 27, 2009, at 12:48 PM, Erez Haba wrote:
>
>
> Hi all, I'm not really sure how to respond to this email. I will just note that this proposal has passed 1st vote last September with the following results.
>
> 4. Vote topic: MPI-2.2 const for C bindings, 1st vote:
> YES:
>
> 17
>
> NO:
>
> 4
>
> ABSTAIN:
>
> 6
>
> MISSED:
>
> 0
>
> Result:
>
> Ballot passed
>
>
> http://meetings.mpi-forum.org/secretary/2008/09/votes.php
>
> since then we decided to postpone the 1st vote to add very few minor correction to ticket #46 (the original proposal) and thus created ticket #140.
>
> I believe that all the points you mention below have been discussed in the forum meeting(s).
>
> Thanks,
> .Erez
>
> From: mpi-forum-bounces(a)lists.mpi-forum.org<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Richard Treumann
> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:53 AM
> To: Main MPI Forum mailing list
> Cc: mpi-22(a)lists.mpi-forum.org<mailto:[email protected]>
> Subject: [Mpi-forum] The const proposal - Ticket 140
>
>
> All -
>
> The signatories of this letter represent the majority of MPI implementors participating in the MPI Forum. We are concerned that proposal #140 ("Add const Keyword to the C bindings") has a number of issues which suggest delaying to MPI-3 would be appropriate.
>
> In particular, the proposal:
>
> - Is likely to pass a simple majority vote, but does not carry the support of the majority of MPI implementors, suggesting consensus has not been reached.
> - Changes 90+ MPI API interfaces, which is not a "trivial" change and therefore does not meet the intent of the MPI-2.2 process.
> - Is not needed to fix any serious bug in the standard text or to solve an issue that cannot easily be avoided by the MPI application.
> - Does not offer any demonstrable optimization opportunities for implementation or application, but may constrain future implementation opportunities.
>
> Therefore, we ask for your assistance in deferring proposal #140 to the MPI-3 process, where more time can be spent assessing its impact.
>
> Thank you,
>
> - Cisco: Jeff Squires
> - Intel: Alexander Supalov & Keith Underwood
> - Sandia: Brian Barrett
> - IBM: Richard Treumann
> - QLogic: Avneesh Pant
> - UTenn: George Bosilca
> - HP: David George Solt
> - UHouston: Edgar Gabriel
> - Myricom: Patrick Geoffray
> - ORNL: Richard Graham
> - Sun: Terry Dontje
> - NEC: Hubert Ritzdorf & Jesper Traeff
>
>
>
> Dick Treumann - MPI Team
> IBM Systems & Technology Group
> Dept X2ZA / MS P963 -- 2455 South Road -- Poughkeepsie, NY 12601
> Tele (845) 433-7846 Fax (845) 433-8363
> <ATT00001.txt>
>
> William Gropp
> Deputy Director for Research
> Institute for Advanced Computing Applications and Technologies
> Paul and Cynthia Saylor Professor of Computer Science
> University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign
>
>
>
>
>
>
A new mailing list has been created for MPI 3.0 general discussions over
arching issues, as well as the continued effort to improve the existing MPI
standard document. The mailing list is called mpi-3, and one can subscribe
to this list at http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi .
Discussions that were taking place in the context of MPI 2.2 that did not
make it into 2.2, such as the const discussion, should be moved to this
list, as well as new items that come up. Once the list is populated, I will
start a discussion of interface changes at MPI 3.0 on this list this is
different from the work to add new interface functions.
Rich
With this feedback of my distinguish colleagues, I don't see any point of perusing this proposal and I will be withdrawing this ticket in the next mpi forum meeting.
Thanks,
.Erez
From: mpi-22-bounces(a)lists.mpi-forum.org [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of William Gropp
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 11:37 AM
To: MPI 2.2
Cc: Main MPI Forum mailing list
Subject: Re: [Mpi-22] [Mpi-forum] The const proposal - Ticket 140
This is an example of why we have two votes - to give everyone a chance to take a second look at the issues. I'll note that the 17-10 (counting no's and abstains together) is worrisome; while a majority vote is the rule, a good standard will make a compelling argument for each feature.
The process here would normally be to have a debate and then the second vote. However, for MPI 2.2, we have the additional requirements of limited scope of change to implementations - we didn't define what that meant precisely (and that is a good thing), but there is a strong argument that limited scope of change would require at least a majority of implementations to agree that the change is minor.
Bill
On May 27, 2009, at 12:48 PM, Erez Haba wrote:
Hi all, I'm not really sure how to respond to this email. I will just note that this proposal has passed 1st vote last September with the following results.
4. Vote topic: MPI-2.2 const for C bindings, 1st vote:
YES:
17
NO:
4
ABSTAIN:
6
MISSED:
0
Result:
Ballot passed
http://meetings.mpi-forum.org/secretary/2008/09/votes.php
since then we decided to postpone the 1st vote to add very few minor correction to ticket #46 (the original proposal) and thus created ticket #140.
I believe that all the points you mention below have been discussed in the forum meeting(s).
Thanks,
.Erez
From: mpi-forum-bounces(a)lists.mpi-forum.org<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Richard Treumann
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:53 AM
To: Main MPI Forum mailing list
Cc: mpi-22(a)lists.mpi-forum.org<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: [Mpi-forum] The const proposal - Ticket 140
All -
The signatories of this letter represent the majority of MPI implementors participating in the MPI Forum. We are concerned that proposal #140 ("Add const Keyword to the C bindings") has a number of issues which suggest delaying to MPI-3 would be appropriate.
In particular, the proposal:
- Is likely to pass a simple majority vote, but does not carry the support of the majority of MPI implementors, suggesting consensus has not been reached.
- Changes 90+ MPI API interfaces, which is not a "trivial" change and therefore does not meet the intent of the MPI-2.2 process.
- Is not needed to fix any serious bug in the standard text or to solve an issue that cannot easily be avoided by the MPI application.
- Does not offer any demonstrable optimization opportunities for implementation or application, but may constrain future implementation opportunities.
Therefore, we ask for your assistance in deferring proposal #140 to the MPI-3 process, where more time can be spent assessing its impact.
Thank you,
- Cisco: Jeff Squires
- Intel: Alexander Supalov & Keith Underwood
- Sandia: Brian Barrett
- IBM: Richard Treumann
- QLogic: Avneesh Pant
- UTenn: George Bosilca
- HP: David George Solt
- UHouston: Edgar Gabriel
- Myricom: Patrick Geoffray
- ORNL: Richard Graham
- Sun: Terry Dontje
- NEC: Hubert Ritzdorf & Jesper Traeff
Dick Treumann - MPI Team
IBM Systems & Technology Group
Dept X2ZA / MS P963 -- 2455 South Road -- Poughkeepsie, NY 12601
Tele (845) 433-7846 Fax (845) 433-8363
<ATT00001.txt>
William Gropp
Deputy Director for Research
Institute for Advanced Computing Applications and Technologies
Paul and Cynthia Saylor Professor of Computer Science
University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign
