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Re: [mpiwg-tools] Meeting reminder: Sep 19, 2019 (today)
by Marc-André Hermanns 23 Sep '19

23 Sep '19

Hi Martin, > Thanks for the notes and sorry I couldn’t make it last week. Looking > over the notes I have a few questions/comments on QMPI (not > necessarily for you, but for the group): > > Re: "Implementations define an enum that can be used to query.” > > That certainly works and is probably relatively clean. If we go that > way, though, we should prescribe the enum values in the standard. From what we saw in the prototype, it should be enough to define the enum *keys*, not the values, as the tool wrappers will always use those to interact with QMPI (it would replace the explicit numbers currently used in the wrappers of the prototype tool). > We should also leave the option for MPI implementations to add more > than the existing standardized calls (e.g., now MPIX functions) to > that array, e.g., after a cutoff index. As we should only rely on the enum keys, I think there is no need to define any cutoff index, the additional symbol names would be there. It would be part of the documentation to know which additional keys are defined. > Re: "What about symbol name length” > > What speaks against just using the existing MPI function names as enum > elements? Then we at least don’t introduce any new problems. My point for the notes was that we already have function names that are right on the maximum length that _have_ to be supported by C, C++, and Fortran, so we should keep this in mind. Yes, I'd advocate for a short prefix and the function name, e.g., in lieu of a better name "QMPI_INIT". > Re: "How would QMPI know the name of the wrappers of a linked tool?” > > I had thought about this before as well, but I think this can lead to > problems - if you end up with two tools using the same prefix (like > the “tool” in the example - I imagine we put this into the examples > and there every 2nd tool will be called “tool”, no matter how many > advice to users we write). It would also require MPI to do a dlsym on > every node at startup for every tool for every MPI function, which > probably causes scalability issues. You would have your real world tool return "tool" as the symbol prefix?!? For Score-P I can certainly guarantee that we would have "SCOREP" as the prefix. For MUST I'd expect something like "MUST" or "must" and for OpenSpeedShop I'd expect something like "OSS". The list goes on. I think it would be a matter of tool quality to _not_ use some generic name like "tool". After all, we are advocating the same level of user/vendor responsibility in our MPI_T UID proposal. Did I misunderstand you here? > I am not sure we need it though: if MPI passes a void* array with the > index enum from above during the init function, then the tool can fill > it out and just write all its own function pointers into the array and > then hand that back to MPI for the creation of the larger tables. I am not a fan of handing out some array and directly setting values in there. It seems like exposing too much implementation detail (where MPI usually does a good job hiding these things behind an opaque handle). If we use the approach above, I could imagine something along the lines of: int tool_id; QMPI_Tool_register(&tool_id); QMPI_Tool_set_prefix(tool_id, "unique_name_for_tool") QMPI_Tool_intercept(tool_id, QMPI_INIT); QMPI_Tool_intercept(tool_id, QMPI_FINALIZE); the MPI implementation would then search for the symbols "unique_name_for_tool_MPI_Init" and "unique_name_for_tool_MPI_Finalize" and register the wrappers. > Re: "Current prototype focuses/relies on dynamic libraries” > > With the above function table method, I think the system should > already support static libraries - as long as they get initialized > somehow, they can register themselves and their functions (function > pointers work equally for static libraries). The initialization is exactly the critical point. As we discussed in the call (I am not much of a dynamic library expert), one can call a special function when initializing a dynamic library, which then can deal with all the registrations. Such a mechanism is missing for static libraries. A possible way to mitigate this, albeit a bit hackish, would be to define an environment variable (e.g., MPI_TOOL_INIT) where the user can provide a comma-separated list of initialization symbols to call. What do you think? Cheers, Marc-Andre >> On 19. Sep 2019, at 10:48, Marc-André Hermanns via mpiwg-tools >> <mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> I put up my notes to out meeting on the wiki: >> >> https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/tools-issues/wiki/Notes-2019-09-19 >> >> Feel free to add/change/remove as appropriate. >> >> Cheers, >> Marc-Andre >> >> On 19.09.19 08:13, Marc-André Hermanns via mpiwg-tools wrote: >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> This is a reminder of our regularly scheduled call today September 19 >>> at 8 am Pacific / 11 am Eastern / 5pm CET. >>> >>> Webex Info: >>> https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/mpi-standard/wiki >>> >>> *NOTE*: The WebEx information moved to to a non-public wiki. You have >>> to be logged into Github *and* have to have access to the private >>> Tools WG repositories. If you need access contact Kathryn or me. >>> >>> Agenda: >>> ------- >>> - Face-to-face meeting summary >>> - Virtual Meeting on MPI_T UIDs summary >>> - QMPI (identifying next steps) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Marc-Andre >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mpiwg-tools mailing list >>> mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools >>> >> >> -- >> Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns >> >> IT Center >> Group: High Performance Computing >> Division: Computational Science and Engineering >> RWTH Aachen University >> Seffenter Weg 23 >> 52074 Aachen >> Phone: +49 241 80-24381 >> hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de <mailto:[email protected]> >> www.itc.rwth-aachen.de <http://www.itc.rwth-aachen.de> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> mpiwg-tools mailing list >> mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org <mailto:[email protected]> >> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools > -- Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns IT Center Group: High Performance Computing Division: Computational Science and Engineering RWTH Aachen University Seffenter Weg 23 52074 Aachen Phone: +49 241 80-24381 hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de www.itc.rwth-aachen.de

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Re: [mpiwg-tools] Meeting reminder: Sep 19, 2019 (today)
by schulzm＠in.tum.de 21 Sep '19

21 Sep '19

Hi Marc-Andre, all, Thanks for the notes and sorry I couldn’t make it last week. Looking over the notes I have a few questions/comments on QMPI (not necessarily for you, but for the group): Re: "Implementations define an enum that can be used to query.” That certainly works and is probably relatively clean. If we go that way, though, we should prescribe the enum values in the standard. We should also leave the option for MPI implementations to add more than the existing standardized calls (e.g., now MPIX functions) to that array, e.g., after a cutoff index. Re: "What about symbol name length” What speaks against just using the existing MPI function names as enum elements? Then we at least don’t introduce any new problems. Re: "How would QMPI know the name of the wrappers of a linked tool?” I had thought about this before as well, but I think this can lead to problems - if you end up with two tools using the same prefix (like the “tool” in the example - I imagine we put this into the examples and there every 2nd tool will be called “tool”, no matter how many advice to users we write). It would also require MPI to do a dlsym on every node at startup for every tool for every MPI function, which probably causes scalability issues. I am not sure we need it though: if MPI passes a void* array with the index enum from above during the init function, then the tool can fill it out and just write all its own function pointers into the array and then hand that back to MPI for the creation of the larger tables. Re: "Current prototype focuses/relies on dynamic libraries” With the above function table method, I think the system should already support static libraries - as long as they get initialized somehow, they can register themselves and their functions (function pointers work equally for static libraries). Cheers, Martin — Prof. Dr. Martin Schulz, Chair of Computer Architecture and Parallel Systems Department of Informatics, TU-Munich, Boltzmannstraße 3, D-85748 Garching Member of the Board of Directors at the Leibniz Supercomputing Centre (LRZ) Email: schulzm(a)in.tum.de > On 19. Sep 2019, at 10:48, Marc-André Hermanns via mpiwg-tools <mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > I put up my notes to out meeting on the wiki: > > https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/tools-issues/wiki/Notes-2019-09-19 <https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/tools-issues/wiki/Notes-2019-09-19> > > Feel free to add/change/remove as appropriate. > > Cheers, > Marc-Andre > > On 19.09.19 08:13, Marc-André Hermanns via mpiwg-tools wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> >> This is a reminder of our regularly scheduled call today September 19 >> at 8 am Pacific / 11 am Eastern / 5pm CET. >> >> Webex Info: >> https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/mpi-standard/wiki >> >> *NOTE*: The WebEx information moved to to a non-public wiki. You have >> to be logged into Github *and* have to have access to the private >> Tools WG repositories. If you need access contact Kathryn or me. >> >> Agenda: >> ------- >> - Face-to-face meeting summary >> - Virtual Meeting on MPI_T UIDs summary >> - QMPI (identifying next steps) >> >> Cheers, >> Marc-Andre >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> mpiwg-tools mailing list >> mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org <mailto:[email protected]> >> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools <https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools> >> > > -- > Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns > > IT Center > Group: High Performance Computing > Division: Computational Science and Engineering > RWTH Aachen University > Seffenter Weg 23 > 52074 Aachen > Phone: +49 241 80-24381 > hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de > www.itc.rwth-aachen.de > > _______________________________________________ > mpiwg-tools mailing list > mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools

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Re: [mpiwg-tools] Meeting reminder: Sep 19, 2019 (today)
by Marc-André Hermanns 19 Sep '19

19 Sep '19

Hi everyone, I put up my notes to out meeting on the wiki: https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/tools-issues/wiki/Notes-2019-09-19 Feel free to add/change/remove as appropriate. Cheers, Marc-Andre On 19.09.19 08:13, Marc-André Hermanns via mpiwg-tools wrote: > Hi everyone, > > This is a reminder of our regularly scheduled call today September 19 > at 8 am Pacific / 11 am Eastern / 5pm CET. > > Webex Info: > https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/mpi-standard/wiki > > *NOTE*: The WebEx information moved to to a non-public wiki. You have > to be logged into Github *and* have to have access to the private > Tools WG repositories. If you need access contact Kathryn or me. > > Agenda: > ------- > - Face-to-face meeting summary > - Virtual Meeting on MPI_T UIDs summary > - QMPI (identifying next steps) > > Cheers, > Marc-Andre > > > _______________________________________________ > mpiwg-tools mailing list > mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools > -- Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns IT Center Group: High Performance Computing Division: Computational Science and Engineering RWTH Aachen University Seffenter Weg 23 52074 Aachen Phone: +49 241 80-24381 hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de www.itc.rwth-aachen.de

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Re: [mpiwg-tools] Meeting reminder: Sep 19, 2019 (today)
by Michael Knobloch 19 Sep '19

19 Sep '19

I should hit send earlier ;-) On 19.09.19 17:02, Marc-André Hermanns via mpiwg-tools wrote: > Having trouble to join ... will have to restart and try again. > > Sorry for the delay. > > Cheers, > Marc-Andre > > On 19.09.19 08:13, Marc-André Hermanns wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> >> This is a reminder of our regularly scheduled call today September 19 >> at 8 am Pacific / 11 am Eastern / 5pm CET. >> >> Webex Info: >> https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/mpi-standard/wiki >> >> *NOTE*: The WebEx information moved to to a non-public wiki. You have >> to be logged into Github *and* have to have access to the private >> Tools WG repositories. If you need access contact Kathryn or me. >> >> Agenda: >> ------- >> - Face-to-face meeting summary >> - Virtual Meeting on MPI_T UIDs summary >> - QMPI (identifying next steps) >> >> Cheers, >> Marc-Andre >> > > > _______________________________________________ > mpiwg-tools mailing list > mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools > -- Michael Knobloch Juelich Supercomputing Centre Institute for Advanced Simulation Forschungszentrum Juelich GmbH 52425 Juelich, Germany Phone: +49-2461-61-3546 Fax: +49-2461-61-6656 E-mail: m.knobloch(a)fz-juelich.de WWW: http://www.fz-juelich.de/jsc/

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Re: [mpiwg-tools] Meeting reminder: Sep 19, 2019 (today)
by Michael Knobloch 19 Sep '19

19 Sep '19

Anyone else having problems joining the meeting? On 19.09.19 08:13, Marc-André Hermanns via mpiwg-tools wrote: > Hi everyone, > > This is a reminder of our regularly scheduled call today September 19 > at 8 am Pacific / 11 am Eastern / 5pm CET. > > Webex Info: > https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/mpi-standard/wiki > > *NOTE*: The WebEx information moved to to a non-public wiki. You have > to be logged into Github *and* have to have access to the private > Tools WG repositories. If you need access contact Kathryn or me. > > Agenda: > ------- > - Face-to-face meeting summary > - Virtual Meeting on MPI_T UIDs summary > - QMPI (identifying next steps) > > Cheers, > Marc-Andre > > > _______________________________________________ > mpiwg-tools mailing list > mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools > -- Michael Knobloch Juelich Supercomputing Centre Institute for Advanced Simulation Forschungszentrum Juelich GmbH 52425 Juelich, Germany Phone: +49-2461-61-3546 Fax: +49-2461-61-6656 E-mail: m.knobloch(a)fz-juelich.de WWW: http://www.fz-juelich.de/jsc/

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Re: [mpiwg-tools] Meeting reminder: Sep 19, 2019 (today)
by Marc-André Hermanns 19 Sep '19

19 Sep '19

Having trouble to join ... will have to restart and try again. Sorry for the delay. Cheers, Marc-Andre On 19.09.19 08:13, Marc-André Hermanns wrote: > Hi everyone, > > This is a reminder of our regularly scheduled call today September 19 > at 8 am Pacific / 11 am Eastern / 5pm CET. > > Webex Info: > https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/mpi-standard/wiki > > *NOTE*: The WebEx information moved to to a non-public wiki. You have > to be logged into Github *and* have to have access to the private > Tools WG repositories. If you need access contact Kathryn or me. > > Agenda: > ------- > - Face-to-face meeting summary > - Virtual Meeting on MPI_T UIDs summary > - QMPI (identifying next steps) > > Cheers, > Marc-Andre > -- Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns IT Center Group: High Performance Computing Division: Computational Science and Engineering RWTH Aachen University Seffenter Weg 23 52074 Aachen Phone: +49 241 80-24381 hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de www.itc.rwth-aachen.de

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Meeting reminder: Sep 19, 2019 (today)
by Marc-André Hermanns 19 Sep '19

19 Sep '19

Hi everyone, This is a reminder of our regularly scheduled call today September 19 at 8 am Pacific / 11 am Eastern / 5pm CET. Webex Info: https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/mpi-standard/wiki *NOTE*: The WebEx information moved to to a non-public wiki. You have to be logged into Github *and* have to have access to the private Tools WG repositories. If you need access contact Kathryn or me. Agenda: ------- - Face-to-face meeting summary - Virtual Meeting on MPI_T UIDs summary - QMPI (identifying next steps) Cheers, Marc-Andre -- Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns IT Center Group: High Performance Computing Division: Computational Science and Engineering RWTH Aachen University Seffenter Weg 23 52074 Aachen Phone: +49 241 80-24381 hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de www.itc.rwth-aachen.de -- Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns IT Center Group: High Performance Computing Division: Computational Science and Engineering RWTH Aachen University Seffenter Weg 23 52074 Aachen Phone: +49 241 80-24381 hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de www.itc.rwth-aachen.de

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Re: [mpiwg-tools] Questions for the tools community
by Marc-André Hermanns 19 Sep '19

19 Sep '19

Dear all, so we conclude that we will move this discussion to a later date. As the upcoming weeks may need some special handling (Bill Williams is not available on usual slot next week, Oct 3 is a public holiday in Germany, Oct 10 I have scheduling difficulties) I created a doole poll with some options. https://doodle.com/poll/ir35szkfkkausbpf Please indicate what works for you. Cheers, Marc-Andre On 17.09.19 15:18, William Williams wrote: > I can probably do something at 1900CET that Thursday but am on > airplanes for a few hours before that. If that’s not workable for > others, I’m happy to discuss things over email or a subsequent week as > folks prefer. > > Bill Williams > Wiss. Mitarbeiter > ZIH-IAK, TU-Dresden > Falkenbrunnen, Room 009 > Chemnitzer Straße 50 > 01187 Dresden > Phone: +49 351 463-39976 > e-mail: william.williams(a)mailbox.tu-dresden.de > <mailto:[email protected]> > > > >> On 17. Sep 2019, at 14:53, Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) >> <jsquyres(a)cisco.com <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Pushing to Thursday 26 Sep works for me. >> >> Sorry for the schedule complications! >> >> >>> On Sep 17, 2019, at 8:37 AM, Mohror, Kathryn <mohror1(a)llnl.gov >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Marc-Andre, >>> >>> Pushing to a later Thursday is fine with me. I am not aware of any >>> other tools people that are planning to join this coming Thursday. >>> >>> Kathryn >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: mpiwg-tools <mpiwg-tools-bounces(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of >>> Marc-André Hermanns via mpiwg-tools >>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2019 11:46 PM >>> To: Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) <jsquyres(a)cisco.com >>> <mailto:[email protected]>>; MPI Tool WG >>> <mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>> <mailto:[email protected]>>; William Williams >>> <william.williams(a)mailbox.tu-dresden.de >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> Cc: Marc-André Hermanns <hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> Subject: Re: [mpiwg-tools] Questions for the tools community >>> >>> Hi Jeff, >>> >>> sorry for the delay in responding to your email. >>> >>> As Martin also has some conflicts for this upcoming Thursday, we >>> had the idea to push this to another week. How would that work for you? >>> >>> @Kathryn: Do you know from anyone at LLNL or other US sites who >>> planned to come, who we need to inform if we shift to another week? >>> I put Bill Williams (from TU Dresden) in CC, as he initially >>> planned to join as well. >>> >>> If shifting the topic to a later date doesn't work out for you, you >>> can certainly sync up with me, but I think first-hand information >>> is always best in a discussion and it's always a pleasure to have >>> you on the call ;-) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Marc-Andre >>> >>> On 16.09.19 15:05, Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) wrote: >>>> Something changed and I'm sorry, I can't be there this Thursday. >>>> I'm sorry! >>>> >>>> Can I sync up with someone before Thursday to explain what I'm >>>> asking about? >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Aug 29, 2019, at 11:25 AM, Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) >>>>> <jsquyres(a)cisco.com <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Sure, I can be there. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 29, 2019, at 11:05 AM, Marc-André Hermanns via >>>>>> mpiwg-tools <mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Jeff, >>>>>> >>>>>> sorry about the silence. As Martin already said, your mail led to >>>>>> some internal discussion and we wanted to reach out beyond the >>>>>> tools >>>>>> people on the mailing list because it seems no-one on the list is >>>>>> currently able to handle Fortran descriptors, but we failed to >>>>>> keep you informed. >>>>>> >>>>>> Would you be available on *Sep 19* for the tools call? That would >>>>>> give us some time to contact some people outside the working group >>>>>> and they'd have time to either give feedback or organize their >>>>>> schedules in a way to attend the call. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Marc-Andre >>>>>> >>>>>> On 29.08.19 16:53, Martin Schulz via mpiwg-tools wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Jeff, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Due to the summer break and vacation time, especially in >>>>>>> Europe, we >>>>>>> haven’t had a chance to address this - Marc-Andre had suggested a >>>>>>> tools call on this for after EuroMPI and then we’ll know more (we >>>>>>> need to get tool implementors to the table who are not part of >>>>>>> the WG). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Personally, though, I fear you are right with your assumption, but >>>>>>> I am happy to be proven wrong. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Martin >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> — >>>>>>> Prof. Dr. Martin Schulz, Chair of Computer Architecture and >>>>>>> Parallel Systems Department of Informatics, TU-Munich, >>>>>>> Boltzmannstraße 3, D-85748 Garching Member of the Board of >>>>>>> Directors at the Leibniz Supercomputing Centre >>>>>>> (LRZ) >>>>>>> Email: schulzm(a)in.tum.de <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 29. Aug 2019, at 16:46, Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) via >>>>>>>> mpiwg-tools >>>>>>>> <mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Should I infer from the lack of reply that no tools properly >>>>>>>> handle either Fortran descriptors or the descriptor-based symbols? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 25, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) via >>>>>>>>> mpiwg-tools <mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In Open MPI, we are finally working towards supporting Fortran >>>>>>>>> descriptors for choice buffers (i.e., "TYPE(*), DIMENSION(..)"). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Per MPI-3.1 p613 table 17.1, this means ***changing all the >>>>>>>>> back-end symbols*** that are used for PMPI-style interception. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A concrete example: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - in mpif.h / the mpi module, MPI_SEND will become MPI_SEND_FTS >>>>>>>>> - in the mpi_f08 module, MPI_SEND will become MPI_SEND_F08TS >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I.e., anywhere the application calls MPI_SEND, it will be >>>>>>>>> transmogrified to either MPI_SEND_FTS or MPI_SEND_F08TS. And >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> choice buffer passed will be a descriptor (which may >>>>>>>>> therefore be >>>>>>>>> a subarray, not a contiguous buffer), not a naked pointer. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Here's my questions: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1. Do any tools support Fortran descriptors as choice buffers? >>>>>>>>> 2. Do any tools intercept the symbols as described in MPI-3.1 >>>>>>>>> table 17.1? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Jeff Squyres >>>>>>>>> jsquyres(a)cisco.com <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> mpiwg-tools mailing list >>>>>>>>> mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Jeff Squyres >>>>>>>> jsquyres(a)cisco.com <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> mpiwg-tools mailing list >>>>>>>> mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> mpiwg-tools mailing list >>>>>>> mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns >>>>>> >>>>>> IT Center >>>>>> Group: High Performance Computing >>>>>> Division: Computational Science and Engineering RWTH Aachen >>>>>> University Seffenter Weg 23 >>>>>> 52074 Aachen >>>>>> Phone: +49 241 80-24381 >>>>>> hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> www.itc.rwth-aachen.de >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> mpiwg-tools mailing list >>>>>> mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>>>>> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jeff Squyres >>>>> jsquyres(a)cisco.com <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns >>> >>> IT Center >>> Group: High Performance Computing >>> Division: Computational Science and Engineering RWTH Aachen >>> University Seffenter Weg 23 >>> 52074 Aachen >>> Phone: +49 241 80-24381 >>> hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de <mailto:[email protected]> >>> www.itc.rwth-aachen.de >>> >> >> >> -- >> Jeff Squyres >> jsquyres(a)cisco.com <mailto:[email protected]> >> > -- Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns IT Center Group: High Performance Computing Division: Computational Science and Engineering RWTH Aachen University Seffenter Weg 23 52074 Aachen Phone: +49 241 80-24381 hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de www.itc.rwth-aachen.de

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Re: [mpiwg-tools] Questions for the tools community
by Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) 17 Sep '19

17 Sep '19

Pushing to Thursday 26 Sep works for me. Sorry for the schedule complications! > On Sep 17, 2019, at 8:37 AM, Mohror, Kathryn <mohror1(a)llnl.gov> wrote: > > Hi Marc-Andre, > > Pushing to a later Thursday is fine with me. I am not aware of any other tools people that are planning to join this coming Thursday. > > Kathryn > > -----Original Message----- > From: mpiwg-tools <mpiwg-tools-bounces(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> On Behalf Of Marc-André Hermanns via mpiwg-tools > Sent: Monday, September 16, 2019 11:46 PM > To: Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) <jsquyres(a)cisco.com>; MPI Tool WG <mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org>; William Williams <william.williams(a)mailbox.tu-dresden.de> > Cc: Marc-André Hermanns <hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de> > Subject: Re: [mpiwg-tools] Questions for the tools community > > Hi Jeff, > > sorry for the delay in responding to your email. > > As Martin also has some conflicts for this upcoming Thursday, we had the idea to push this to another week. How would that work for you? > > @Kathryn: Do you know from anyone at LLNL or other US sites who planned to come, who we need to inform if we shift to another week? > I put Bill Williams (from TU Dresden) in CC, as he initially planned to join as well. > > If shifting the topic to a later date doesn't work out for you, you can certainly sync up with me, but I think first-hand information is always best in a discussion and it's always a pleasure to have you on the call ;-) > > Cheers, > Marc-Andre > > On 16.09.19 15:05, Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) wrote: >> Something changed and I'm sorry, I can't be there this Thursday. I'm sorry! >> >> Can I sync up with someone before Thursday to explain what I'm asking about? >> >> >>> On Aug 29, 2019, at 11:25 AM, Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) <jsquyres(a)cisco.com> wrote: >>> >>> Sure, I can be there. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 29, 2019, at 11:05 AM, Marc-André Hermanns via mpiwg-tools <mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Jeff, >>>> >>>> sorry about the silence. As Martin already said, your mail led to >>>> some internal discussion and we wanted to reach out beyond the tools >>>> people on the mailing list because it seems no-one on the list is >>>> currently able to handle Fortran descriptors, but we failed to keep you informed. >>>> >>>> Would you be available on *Sep 19* for the tools call? That would >>>> give us some time to contact some people outside the working group >>>> and they'd have time to either give feedback or organize their >>>> schedules in a way to attend the call. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Marc-Andre >>>> >>>> On 29.08.19 16:53, Martin Schulz via mpiwg-tools wrote: >>>>> Hi Jeff, >>>>> >>>>> Due to the summer break and vacation time, especially in Europe, we >>>>> haven’t had a chance to address this - Marc-Andre had suggested a >>>>> tools call on this for after EuroMPI and then we’ll know more (we >>>>> need to get tool implementors to the table who are not part of the WG). >>>>> >>>>> Personally, though, I fear you are right with your assumption, but >>>>> I am happy to be proven wrong. >>>>> >>>>> Martin >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> — >>>>> Prof. Dr. Martin Schulz, Chair of Computer Architecture and >>>>> Parallel Systems Department of Informatics, TU-Munich, >>>>> Boltzmannstraße 3, D-85748 Garching Member of the Board of >>>>> Directors at the Leibniz Supercomputing Centre >>>>> (LRZ) >>>>> Email: schulzm(a)in.tum.de <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 29. Aug 2019, at 16:46, Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) via mpiwg-tools >>>>>> <mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Should I infer from the lack of reply that no tools properly >>>>>> handle either Fortran descriptors or the descriptor-based symbols? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 25, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) via >>>>>>> mpiwg-tools <mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In Open MPI, we are finally working towards supporting Fortran >>>>>>> descriptors for choice buffers (i.e., "TYPE(*), DIMENSION(..)"). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Per MPI-3.1 p613 table 17.1, this means ***changing all the >>>>>>> back-end symbols*** that are used for PMPI-style interception. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A concrete example: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - in mpif.h / the mpi module, MPI_SEND will become MPI_SEND_FTS >>>>>>> - in the mpi_f08 module, MPI_SEND will become MPI_SEND_F08TS >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I.e., anywhere the application calls MPI_SEND, it will be >>>>>>> transmogrified to either MPI_SEND_FTS or MPI_SEND_F08TS. And the >>>>>>> choice buffer passed will be a descriptor (which may therefore be >>>>>>> a subarray, not a contiguous buffer), not a naked pointer. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here's my questions: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. Do any tools support Fortran descriptors as choice buffers? >>>>>>> 2. Do any tools intercept the symbols as described in MPI-3.1 >>>>>>> table 17.1? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Jeff Squyres >>>>>>> jsquyres(a)cisco.com <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> mpiwg-tools mailing list >>>>>>> mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>>>>>> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Jeff Squyres >>>>>> jsquyres(a)cisco.com <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> mpiwg-tools mailing list >>>>>> mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>>>>> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> mpiwg-tools mailing list >>>>> mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>>>> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns >>>> >>>> IT Center >>>> Group: High Performance Computing >>>> Division: Computational Science and Engineering RWTH Aachen >>>> University Seffenter Weg 23 >>>> 52074 Aachen >>>> Phone: +49 241 80-24381 >>>> hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de >>>> www.itc.rwth-aachen.de >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> mpiwg-tools mailing list >>>> mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>>> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jeff Squyres >>> jsquyres(a)cisco.com >>> >> >> > > -- > Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns > > IT Center > Group: High Performance Computing > Division: Computational Science and Engineering RWTH Aachen University Seffenter Weg 23 > 52074 Aachen > Phone: +49 241 80-24381 > hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de > www.itc.rwth-aachen.de > -- Jeff Squyres jsquyres(a)cisco.com

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Re: [mpiwg-tools] Questions for the tools community
by Mohror, Kathryn 17 Sep '19

17 Sep '19

Hi Marc-Andre, Pushing to a later Thursday is fine with me. I am not aware of any other tools people that are planning to join this coming Thursday. Kathryn -----Original Message----- From: mpiwg-tools <mpiwg-tools-bounces(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> On Behalf Of Marc-André Hermanns via mpiwg-tools Sent: Monday, September 16, 2019 11:46 PM To: Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) <jsquyres(a)cisco.com>; MPI Tool WG <mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org>; William Williams <william.williams(a)mailbox.tu-dresden.de> Cc: Marc-André Hermanns <hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: [mpiwg-tools] Questions for the tools community Hi Jeff, sorry for the delay in responding to your email. As Martin also has some conflicts for this upcoming Thursday, we had the idea to push this to another week. How would that work for you? @Kathryn: Do you know from anyone at LLNL or other US sites who planned to come, who we need to inform if we shift to another week? I put Bill Williams (from TU Dresden) in CC, as he initially planned to join as well. If shifting the topic to a later date doesn't work out for you, you can certainly sync up with me, but I think first-hand information is always best in a discussion and it's always a pleasure to have you on the call ;-) Cheers, Marc-Andre On 16.09.19 15:05, Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) wrote: > Something changed and I'm sorry, I can't be there this Thursday. I'm sorry! > > Can I sync up with someone before Thursday to explain what I'm asking about? > > >> On Aug 29, 2019, at 11:25 AM, Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) <jsquyres(a)cisco.com> wrote: >> >> Sure, I can be there. >> >> Thanks! >> >> >>> On Aug 29, 2019, at 11:05 AM, Marc-André Hermanns via mpiwg-tools <mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Jeff, >>> >>> sorry about the silence. As Martin already said, your mail led to >>> some internal discussion and we wanted to reach out beyond the tools >>> people on the mailing list because it seems no-one on the list is >>> currently able to handle Fortran descriptors, but we failed to keep you informed. >>> >>> Would you be available on *Sep 19* for the tools call? That would >>> give us some time to contact some people outside the working group >>> and they'd have time to either give feedback or organize their >>> schedules in a way to attend the call. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Marc-Andre >>> >>> On 29.08.19 16:53, Martin Schulz via mpiwg-tools wrote: >>>> Hi Jeff, >>>> >>>> Due to the summer break and vacation time, especially in Europe, we >>>> haven’t had a chance to address this - Marc-Andre had suggested a >>>> tools call on this for after EuroMPI and then we’ll know more (we >>>> need to get tool implementors to the table who are not part of the WG). >>>> >>>> Personally, though, I fear you are right with your assumption, but >>>> I am happy to be proven wrong. >>>> >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> >>>> — >>>> Prof. Dr. Martin Schulz, Chair of Computer Architecture and >>>> Parallel Systems Department of Informatics, TU-Munich, >>>> Boltzmannstraße 3, D-85748 Garching Member of the Board of >>>> Directors at the Leibniz Supercomputing Centre >>>> (LRZ) >>>> Email: schulzm(a)in.tum.de <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 29. Aug 2019, at 16:46, Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) via mpiwg-tools >>>>> <mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Should I infer from the lack of reply that no tools properly >>>>> handle either Fortran descriptors or the descriptor-based symbols? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 25, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Jeff Squyres (jsquyres) via >>>>>> mpiwg-tools <mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> In Open MPI, we are finally working towards supporting Fortran >>>>>> descriptors for choice buffers (i.e., "TYPE(*), DIMENSION(..)"). >>>>>> >>>>>> Per MPI-3.1 p613 table 17.1, this means ***changing all the >>>>>> back-end symbols*** that are used for PMPI-style interception. >>>>>> >>>>>> A concrete example: >>>>>> >>>>>> - in mpif.h / the mpi module, MPI_SEND will become MPI_SEND_FTS >>>>>> - in the mpi_f08 module, MPI_SEND will become MPI_SEND_F08TS >>>>>> >>>>>> I.e., anywhere the application calls MPI_SEND, it will be >>>>>> transmogrified to either MPI_SEND_FTS or MPI_SEND_F08TS. And the >>>>>> choice buffer passed will be a descriptor (which may therefore be >>>>>> a subarray, not a contiguous buffer), not a naked pointer. >>>>>> >>>>>> Here's my questions: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. Do any tools support Fortran descriptors as choice buffers? >>>>>> 2. Do any tools intercept the symbols as described in MPI-3.1 >>>>>> table 17.1? >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Jeff Squyres >>>>>> jsquyres(a)cisco.com <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> mpiwg-tools mailing list >>>>>> mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>>>>> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jeff Squyres >>>>> jsquyres(a)cisco.com <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> mpiwg-tools mailing list >>>>> mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>>>> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> mpiwg-tools mailing list >>>> mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>>> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns >>> >>> IT Center >>> Group: High Performance Computing >>> Division: Computational Science and Engineering RWTH Aachen >>> University Seffenter Weg 23 >>> 52074 Aachen >>> Phone: +49 241 80-24381 >>> hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de >>> www.itc.rwth-aachen.de >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mpiwg-tools mailing list >>> mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools >> >> >> -- >> Jeff Squyres >> jsquyres(a)cisco.com >> > > -- Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns IT Center Group: High Performance Computing Division: Computational Science and Engineering RWTH Aachen University Seffenter Weg 23 52074 Aachen Phone: +49 241 80-24381 hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de www.itc.rwth-aachen.de

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