September 2019 - mpiwg-tools - mailman3.cels.anl.gov

Re: [mpiwg-tools] Meeting reminder: Sep 26, 2019 (today)
by Marc-André Hermanns 26 Sep '19

26 Sep '19

Hi Josh, yes, it seems. At the moment it's Chris and me on the call. Anyone else trying to join? Cheers, Marc-Andre On 26.09.19 17:06, Josh Cottingham wrote: > Appears that I am having trouble joining the conference, anyone else > experiencing this issue? > > *Joshua Cottingham | Graduate Software Engineer* > > *SDHE - Development Solutions > * > > *Josh.Cottingham(a)arm.com* > > *** > * > *Arm* > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > *From:* mpiwg-tools <mpiwg-tools-bounces(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> on > behalf of Marc-André Hermanns via mpiwg-tools > <mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> > *Sent:* 26 September 2019 13:37 > *To:* MPI Forum - Tools WG <mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> > *Cc:* Marc-André Hermanns <hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de> > *Subject:* [mpiwg-tools] Meeting reminder: Sep 26, 2019 (today) > > Hi everyone, > > This is a reminder of our regularly scheduled call today September 26, > at 8 am Pacific / 11 am Eastern / 5pm CET. > > Webex Info: > https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/mpi-standard/wiki > > *NOTE*: The WebEx information moved to to a non-public wiki. You have > to be logged into Github *and* have to have access to the private > Tools WG repositories. If you need access contact Kathryn or me. > > Agenda: > ------- > - Continue QMPI discussion > > Cheers, > Marc-Andre > > -- > Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns > > IT Center > Group: High Performance Computing > Division: Computational Science and Engineering > RWTH Aachen University > Seffenter Weg 23 > 52074 Aachen > Phone: +49 241 80-24381 > hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de > www.itc.rwth-aachen.de <http://www.itc.rwth-aachen.de> > > > -- > Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns > > IT Center > Group: High Performance Computing > Division: Computational Science and Engineering > RWTH Aachen University > Seffenter Weg 23 > 52074 Aachen > Phone: +49 241 80-24381 > hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de > www.itc.rwth-aachen.de <http://www.itc.rwth-aachen.de> > > > IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are > confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended > recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose > the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or > copy the information in any medium. Thank you. -- Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns IT Center Group: High Performance Computing Division: Computational Science and Engineering RWTH Aachen University Seffenter Weg 23 52074 Aachen Phone: +49 241 80-24381 hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de www.itc.rwth-aachen.de

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Re: [mpiwg-tools] Meeting reminder: Sep 26, 2019 (today)
by Josh Cottingham 26 Sep '19

26 Sep '19

Appears that I am having trouble joining the conference, anyone else experiencing this i Joshua Cottingham | Graduate Software Engineer SDHE - Development Solutions Josh.Cottingham(a)arm.com Arm ________________________________ From: mpiwg-tools <mpiwg-tools-bounces(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> on behalf of Marc-André Hermanns via mpiwg-tools <mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> Sent: 26 September 2019 13:37 To: MPI Forum - Tools WG <mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> Cc: Marc-André Hermanns <hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: [mpiwg-tools] Meeting reminder: Sep 26, 2019 (today) Hi everyone, This is a reminder of our regularly scheduled call today September 26, at 8 am Pacific / 11 am Eastern / 5pm CET. Webex Info: https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/mpi-standard/wiki *NOTE*: The WebEx information moved to to a non-public wiki. You have to be logged into Github *and* have to have access to the private Tools WG repositories. If you need access contact Kathryn or me. Agenda: ------- - Continue QMPI discussion Cheers, Marc-Andre -- Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns IT Center Group: High Performance Computing Division: Computational Science and Engineering RWTH Aachen University Seffenter Weg 23 52074 Aachen Phone: +49 241 80-24381 hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de www.itc.rwth-aachen.de<http://www.itc.rwth-aachen.de> -- Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns IT Center Group: High Performance Computing Division: Computational Science and Engineering RWTH Aachen University Seffenter Weg 23 52074 Aachen Phone: +49 241 80-24381 hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de www.itc.rwth-aachen.de<http://www.itc.rwth-aachen.de> IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.

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Re: [mpiwg-tools] Meeting reminder: Sep 26, 2019 (today)
by Josh Cottingham 26 Sep '19

26 Sep '19

Appears that I am having trouble joining the conference, anyone else experiencing this issue? Joshua Cottingham | Graduate Software Engineer SDHE - Development Solutions Josh.Cottingham(a)arm.com Arm ________________________________ From: mpiwg-tools <mpiwg-tools-bounces(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> on behalf of Marc-André Hermanns via mpiwg-tools <mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> Sent: 26 September 2019 13:37 To: MPI Forum - Tools WG <mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> Cc: Marc-André Hermanns <hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: [mpiwg-tools] Meeting reminder: Sep 26, 2019 (today) Hi everyone, This is a reminder of our regularly scheduled call today September 26, at 8 am Pacific / 11 am Eastern / 5pm CET. Webex Info: https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/mpi-standard/wiki *NOTE*: The WebEx information moved to to a non-public wiki. You have to be logged into Github *and* have to have access to the private Tools WG repositories. If you need access contact Kathryn or me. Agenda: ------- - Continue QMPI discussion Cheers, Marc-Andre -- Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns IT Center Group: High Performance Computing Division: Computational Science and Engineering RWTH Aachen University Seffenter Weg 23 52074 Aachen Phone: +49 241 80-24381 hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de www.itc.rwth-aachen.de<http://www.itc.rwth-aachen.de> -- Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns IT Center Group: High Performance Computing Division: Computational Science and Engineering RWTH Aachen University Seffenter Weg 23 52074 Aachen Phone: +49 241 80-24381 hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de www.itc.rwth-aachen.de<http://www.itc.rwth-aachen.de> IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.

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Meeting reminder: Sep 26, 2019 (today)
by Marc-André Hermanns 26 Sep '19

26 Sep '19

Hi everyone, This is a reminder of our regularly scheduled call today September 26, at 8 am Pacific / 11 am Eastern / 5pm CET. Webex Info: https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/mpi-standard/wiki *NOTE*: The WebEx information moved to to a non-public wiki. You have to be logged into Github *and* have to have access to the private Tools WG repositories. If you need access contact Kathryn or me. Agenda: ------- - Continue QMPI discussion Cheers, Marc-Andre -- Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns IT Center Group: High Performance Computing Division: Computational Science and Engineering RWTH Aachen University Seffenter Weg 23 52074 Aachen Phone: +49 241 80-24381 hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de www.itc.rwth-aachen.de -- Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns IT Center Group: High Performance Computing Division: Computational Science and Engineering RWTH Aachen University Seffenter Weg 23 52074 Aachen Phone: +49 241 80-24381 hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de www.itc.rwth-aachen.de

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Re: [mpiwg-tools] Meeting reminder: Sep 19, 2019 (today)
by Marc-André Hermanns 23 Sep '19

23 Sep '19

Hi Martin, > Thanks for the notes and sorry I couldn’t make it last week. Looking > over the notes I have a few questions/comments on QMPI (not > necessarily for you, but for the group): > > Re: "Implementations define an enum that can be used to query.” > > That certainly works and is probably relatively clean. If we go that > way, though, we should prescribe the enum values in the standard. From what we saw in the prototype, it should be enough to define the enum *keys*, not the values, as the tool wrappers will always use those to interact with QMPI (it would replace the explicit numbers currently used in the wrappers of the prototype tool). > We should also leave the option for MPI implementations to add more > than the existing standardized calls (e.g., now MPIX functions) to > that array, e.g., after a cutoff index. As we should only rely on the enum keys, I think there is no need to define any cutoff index, the additional symbol names would be there. It would be part of the documentation to know which additional keys are defined. > Re: "What about symbol name length” > > What speaks against just using the existing MPI function names as enum > elements? Then we at least don’t introduce any new problems. My point for the notes was that we already have function names that are right on the maximum length that _have_ to be supported by C, C++, and Fortran, so we should keep this in mind. Yes, I'd advocate for a short prefix and the function name, e.g., in lieu of a better name "QMPI_INIT". > Re: "How would QMPI know the name of the wrappers of a linked tool?” > > I had thought about this before as well, but I think this can lead to > problems - if you end up with two tools using the same prefix (like > the “tool” in the example - I imagine we put this into the examples > and there every 2nd tool will be called “tool”, no matter how many > advice to users we write). It would also require MPI to do a dlsym on > every node at startup for every tool for every MPI function, which > probably causes scalability issues. You would have your real world tool return "tool" as the symbol prefix?!? For Score-P I can certainly guarantee that we would have "SCOREP" as the prefix. For MUST I'd expect something like "MUST" or "must" and for OpenSpeedShop I'd expect something like "OSS". The list goes on. I think it would be a matter of tool quality to _not_ use some generic name like "tool". After all, we are advocating the same level of user/vendor responsibility in our MPI_T UID proposal. Did I misunderstand you here? > I am not sure we need it though: if MPI passes a void* array with the > index enum from above during the init function, then the tool can fill > it out and just write all its own function pointers into the array and > then hand that back to MPI for the creation of the larger tables. I am not a fan of handing out some array and directly setting values in there. It seems like exposing too much implementation detail (where MPI usually does a good job hiding these things behind an opaque handle). If we use the approach above, I could imagine something along the lines of: int tool_id; QMPI_Tool_register(&tool_id); QMPI_Tool_set_prefix(tool_id, "unique_name_for_tool") QMPI_Tool_intercept(tool_id, QMPI_INIT); QMPI_Tool_intercept(tool_id, QMPI_FINALIZE); the MPI implementation would then search for the symbols "unique_name_for_tool_MPI_Init" and "unique_name_for_tool_MPI_Finalize" and register the wrappers. > Re: "Current prototype focuses/relies on dynamic libraries” > > With the above function table method, I think the system should > already support static libraries - as long as they get initialized > somehow, they can register themselves and their functions (function > pointers work equally for static libraries). The initialization is exactly the critical point. As we discussed in the call (I am not much of a dynamic library expert), one can call a special function when initializing a dynamic library, which then can deal with all the registrations. Such a mechanism is missing for static libraries. A possible way to mitigate this, albeit a bit hackish, would be to define an environment variable (e.g., MPI_TOOL_INIT) where the user can provide a comma-separated list of initialization symbols to call. What do you think? Cheers, Marc-Andre >> On 19. Sep 2019, at 10:48, Marc-André Hermanns via mpiwg-tools >> <mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> I put up my notes to out meeting on the wiki: >> >> https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/tools-issues/wiki/Notes-2019-09-19 >> >> Feel free to add/change/remove as appropriate. >> >> Cheers, >> Marc-Andre >> >> On 19.09.19 08:13, Marc-André Hermanns via mpiwg-tools wrote: >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> This is a reminder of our regularly scheduled call today September 19 >>> at 8 am Pacific / 11 am Eastern / 5pm CET. >>> >>> Webex Info: >>> https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/mpi-standard/wiki >>> >>> *NOTE*: The WebEx information moved to to a non-public wiki. You have >>> to be logged into Github *and* have to have access to the private >>> Tools WG repositories. If you need access contact Kathryn or me. >>> >>> Agenda: >>> ------- >>> - Face-to-face meeting summary >>> - Virtual Meeting on MPI_T UIDs summary >>> - QMPI (identifying next steps) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Marc-Andre >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> mpiwg-tools mailing list >>> mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools >>> >> >> -- >> Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns >> >> IT Center >> Group: High Performance Computing >> Division: Computational Science and Engineering >> RWTH Aachen University >> Seffenter Weg 23 >> 52074 Aachen >> Phone: +49 241 80-24381 >> hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de <mailto:[email protected]> >> www.itc.rwth-aachen.de <http://www.itc.rwth-aachen.de> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> mpiwg-tools mailing list >> mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org <mailto:[email protected]> >> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools > -- Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns IT Center Group: High Performance Computing Division: Computational Science and Engineering RWTH Aachen University Seffenter Weg 23 52074 Aachen Phone: +49 241 80-24381 hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de www.itc.rwth-aachen.de

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Re: [mpiwg-tools] Meeting reminder: Sep 19, 2019 (today)
by schulzm＠in.tum.de 21 Sep '19

21 Sep '19

Hi Marc-Andre, all, Thanks for the notes and sorry I couldn’t make it last week. Looking over the notes I have a few questions/comments on QMPI (not necessarily for you, but for the group): Re: "Implementations define an enum that can be used to query.” That certainly works and is probably relatively clean. If we go that way, though, we should prescribe the enum values in the standard. We should also leave the option for MPI implementations to add more than the existing standardized calls (e.g., now MPIX functions) to that array, e.g., after a cutoff index. Re: "What about symbol name length” What speaks against just using the existing MPI function names as enum elements? Then we at least don’t introduce any new problems. Re: "How would QMPI know the name of the wrappers of a linked tool?” I had thought about this before as well, but I think this can lead to problems - if you end up with two tools using the same prefix (like the “tool” in the example - I imagine we put this into the examples and there every 2nd tool will be called “tool”, no matter how many advice to users we write). It would also require MPI to do a dlsym on every node at startup for every tool for every MPI function, which probably causes scalability issues. I am not sure we need it though: if MPI passes a void* array with the index enum from above during the init function, then the tool can fill it out and just write all its own function pointers into the array and then hand that back to MPI for the creation of the larger tables. Re: "Current prototype focuses/relies on dynamic libraries” With the above function table method, I think the system should already support static libraries - as long as they get initialized somehow, they can register themselves and their functions (function pointers work equally for static libraries). Cheers, Martin — Prof. Dr. Martin Schulz, Chair of Computer Architecture and Parallel Systems Department of Informatics, TU-Munich, Boltzmannstraße 3, D-85748 Garching Member of the Board of Directors at the Leibniz Supercomputing Centre (LRZ) Email: schulzm(a)in.tum.de > On 19. Sep 2019, at 10:48, Marc-André Hermanns via mpiwg-tools <mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > I put up my notes to out meeting on the wiki: > > https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/tools-issues/wiki/Notes-2019-09-19 <https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/tools-issues/wiki/Notes-2019-09-19> > > Feel free to add/change/remove as appropriate. > > Cheers, > Marc-Andre > > On 19.09.19 08:13, Marc-André Hermanns via mpiwg-tools wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> >> This is a reminder of our regularly scheduled call today September 19 >> at 8 am Pacific / 11 am Eastern / 5pm CET. >> >> Webex Info: >> https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/mpi-standard/wiki >> >> *NOTE*: The WebEx information moved to to a non-public wiki. You have >> to be logged into Github *and* have to have access to the private >> Tools WG repositories. If you need access contact Kathryn or me. >> >> Agenda: >> ------- >> - Face-to-face meeting summary >> - Virtual Meeting on MPI_T UIDs summary >> - QMPI (identifying next steps) >> >> Cheers, >> Marc-Andre >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> mpiwg-tools mailing list >> mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org <mailto:[email protected]> >> https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools <https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools> >> > > -- > Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns > > IT Center > Group: High Performance Computing > Division: Computational Science and Engineering > RWTH Aachen University > Seffenter Weg 23 > 52074 Aachen > Phone: +49 241 80-24381 > hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de > www.itc.rwth-aachen.de > > _______________________________________________ > mpiwg-tools mailing list > mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools

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Re: [mpiwg-tools] Meeting reminder: Sep 19, 2019 (today)
by Marc-André Hermanns 19 Sep '19

19 Sep '19

Hi everyone, I put up my notes to out meeting on the wiki: https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/tools-issues/wiki/Notes-2019-09-19 Feel free to add/change/remove as appropriate. Cheers, Marc-Andre On 19.09.19 08:13, Marc-André Hermanns via mpiwg-tools wrote: > Hi everyone, > > This is a reminder of our regularly scheduled call today September 19 > at 8 am Pacific / 11 am Eastern / 5pm CET. > > Webex Info: > https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/mpi-standard/wiki > > *NOTE*: The WebEx information moved to to a non-public wiki. You have > to be logged into Github *and* have to have access to the private > Tools WG repositories. If you need access contact Kathryn or me. > > Agenda: > ------- > - Face-to-face meeting summary > - Virtual Meeting on MPI_T UIDs summary > - QMPI (identifying next steps) > > Cheers, > Marc-Andre > > > _______________________________________________ > mpiwg-tools mailing list > mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools > -- Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns IT Center Group: High Performance Computing Division: Computational Science and Engineering RWTH Aachen University Seffenter Weg 23 52074 Aachen Phone: +49 241 80-24381 hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de www.itc.rwth-aachen.de

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Re: [mpiwg-tools] Meeting reminder: Sep 19, 2019 (today)
by Michael Knobloch 19 Sep '19

19 Sep '19

I should hit send earlier ;-) On 19.09.19 17:02, Marc-André Hermanns via mpiwg-tools wrote: > Having trouble to join ... will have to restart and try again. > > Sorry for the delay. > > Cheers, > Marc-Andre > > On 19.09.19 08:13, Marc-André Hermanns wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> >> This is a reminder of our regularly scheduled call today September 19 >> at 8 am Pacific / 11 am Eastern / 5pm CET. >> >> Webex Info: >> https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/mpi-standard/wiki >> >> *NOTE*: The WebEx information moved to to a non-public wiki. You have >> to be logged into Github *and* have to have access to the private >> Tools WG repositories. If you need access contact Kathryn or me. >> >> Agenda: >> ------- >> - Face-to-face meeting summary >> - Virtual Meeting on MPI_T UIDs summary >> - QMPI (identifying next steps) >> >> Cheers, >> Marc-Andre >> > > > _______________________________________________ > mpiwg-tools mailing list > mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools > -- Michael Knobloch Juelich Supercomputing Centre Institute for Advanced Simulation Forschungszentrum Juelich GmbH 52425 Juelich, Germany Phone: +49-2461-61-3546 Fax: +49-2461-61-6656 E-mail: m.knobloch(a)fz-juelich.de WWW: http://www.fz-juelich.de/jsc/

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Re: [mpiwg-tools] Meeting reminder: Sep 19, 2019 (today)
by Michael Knobloch 19 Sep '19

19 Sep '19

Anyone else having problems joining the meeting? On 19.09.19 08:13, Marc-André Hermanns via mpiwg-tools wrote: > Hi everyone, > > This is a reminder of our regularly scheduled call today September 19 > at 8 am Pacific / 11 am Eastern / 5pm CET. > > Webex Info: > https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/mpi-standard/wiki > > *NOTE*: The WebEx information moved to to a non-public wiki. You have > to be logged into Github *and* have to have access to the private > Tools WG repositories. If you need access contact Kathryn or me. > > Agenda: > ------- > - Face-to-face meeting summary > - Virtual Meeting on MPI_T UIDs summary > - QMPI (identifying next steps) > > Cheers, > Marc-Andre > > > _______________________________________________ > mpiwg-tools mailing list > mpiwg-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-tools > -- Michael Knobloch Juelich Supercomputing Centre Institute for Advanced Simulation Forschungszentrum Juelich GmbH 52425 Juelich, Germany Phone: +49-2461-61-3546 Fax: +49-2461-61-6656 E-mail: m.knobloch(a)fz-juelich.de WWW: http://www.fz-juelich.de/jsc/

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Re: [mpiwg-tools] Meeting reminder: Sep 19, 2019 (today)
by Marc-André Hermanns 19 Sep '19

19 Sep '19

Having trouble to join ... will have to restart and try again. Sorry for the delay. Cheers, Marc-Andre On 19.09.19 08:13, Marc-André Hermanns wrote: > Hi everyone, > > This is a reminder of our regularly scheduled call today September 19 > at 8 am Pacific / 11 am Eastern / 5pm CET. > > Webex Info: > https://github.com/mpiwg-tools/mpi-standard/wiki > > *NOTE*: The WebEx information moved to to a non-public wiki. You have > to be logged into Github *and* have to have access to the private > Tools WG repositories. If you need access contact Kathryn or me. > > Agenda: > ------- > - Face-to-face meeting summary > - Virtual Meeting on MPI_T UIDs summary > - QMPI (identifying next steps) > > Cheers, > Marc-Andre > -- Dr. rer. nat. Marc-André Hermanns IT Center Group: High Performance Computing Division: Computational Science and Engineering RWTH Aachen University Seffenter Weg 23 52074 Aachen Phone: +49 241 80-24381 hermanns(a)itc.rwth-aachen.de www.itc.rwth-aachen.de

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