August 2009 - mpiwg-tools - mailman3.cels.anl.gov

Re: [Mpi3-tools] WG meeting in Helsinki
by Jeff Squyres 17 Aug '09

17 Aug '09

On Aug 17, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Martin Schulz wrote: > > I'd be happy to setup a webex if desired. > > Great, thanks - would you also be able to run the local part? > Yes. -- Jeff Squyres jsquyres(a)cisco.com

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Re: [Mpi3-tools] WG meeting in Helsinki
by Martin Schulz 17 Aug '09

17 Aug '09

On Aug 14, 2009, at 11:32 AM, Jeff Squyres wrote: > I will be there. > > I'd be happy to setup a webex if desired. Great, thanks - would you also be able to run the local part? I sent Rich email to see if we can move the time to a better time for the US, but I haven't heard back from him. Martin > > > On Aug 14, 2009, at 10:57 AM, Martin Schulz wrote: > >> Thanks, Marc-Andre, for getting this started. As you mentioned, I >> will >> not be able to make it, hence I would also need a volunteer to >> coordinate and run the meeting. Further, for people in the US to >> dial in, it would also be necessary to move this into the late >> afternoon. >> >> I expect that at that time we should be (at least partially) back on >> the debug APIs - is anyone from Totalview and/or Alinea going to >> be at the meeting? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Martin >> >> >> >> On Aug 14, 2009, at 6:58 AM, William Gropp wrote: >> >> > I will be there. >> > Bill >> > >> > On Aug 14, 2009, at 8:45 AM, Marc-Andre Hermanns wrote: >> > >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> as Rich now asked on the forum mailing list, I wanted to ask who >> of >> >> us >> >> will be in Helsinki. As far as I know Martin will not be there, >> >> however, >> >> if we are enough people on the topic it might be useful to discuss >> >> the >> >> current topics face-to-face. What do you think? >> >> >> >> To start the list, I will be there: >> >> >> >> [x] Marc-Andre Hermanns (FZJ) >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Marc-Andre >> >> -- >> >> Marc-Andre Hermanns >> >> Juelich Supercomputing Centre >> >> Institute for Advanced Simulation >> >> Forschungszentrum Juelich GmbH >> >> D-52425 Juelich >> >> Germany >> >> >> >> Phone : +49-2461-61-2054 >> >> Fax : +49-2461-61-6656 >> >> eMail : m.a.hermanns(a)fz-juelich.de >> >> WWW : http://**www.**fz-juelich.de/jsc/ >> >> >> >> JSC is the coordinator of the >> >> John von Neumann Institute for Computing >> >> and member of the >> >> Gauss Centre for Supercomputing >> >> >> >> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Juelich >> >> Eingetragen im Handelsregister des Amtsgerichts Dueren Nr. HR B >> 3498 >> >> Vorsitzende des Aufsichtsrats: MinDir'in Baerbel Brumme-Bothe >> >> Geschaeftsfuehrung: Prof. Dr. Achim Bachem (Vorsitzender), >> >> Dr. Ulrich Krafft (stellv. Vorsitzender), >> >> Prof. Dr. Harald Bolt, >> >> Prof. Dr. Sebastian M. Schmidt >> >> <smime.p7s><ATT00001.txt> >> > >> > William Gropp >> > Deputy Director for Research >> > Institute for Advanced Computing Applications and Technologies >> > Paul and Cynthia Saylor Professor of Computer Science >> > University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Mpi3-tools mailing list >> > Mpi3-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >> > http://**lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi3-tools >> > >> >> _______________________________________________________________________ >> Martin Schulz, schulzm(a)llnl.gov, http://*people.llnl.gov/schulzm >> CASC @ Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Livermore, USA >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mpi3-tools mailing list >> Mpi3-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org >> http://*lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi3-tools >> > > > -- > Jeff Squyres > jsquyres(a)cisco.com > > _______________________________________________ > Mpi3-tools mailing list > Mpi3-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > http://*lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi3-tools > _______________________________________________________________________ Martin Schulz, schulzm(a)llnl.gov, http://people.llnl.gov/schulzm CASC @ Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Livermore, USA

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Re: [Mpi3-tools] WG meeting in Helsinki
by Jeff Squyres 14 Aug '09

14 Aug '09

I will be there. I'd be happy to setup a webex if desired. On Aug 14, 2009, at 10:57 AM, Martin Schulz wrote: > Thanks, Marc-Andre, for getting this started. As you mentioned, I will > not be able to make it, hence I would also need a volunteer to > coordinate and run the meeting. Further, for people in the US to > dial in, it would also be necessary to move this into the late > afternoon. > > I expect that at that time we should be (at least partially) back on > the debug APIs - is anyone from Totalview and/or Alinea going to > be at the meeting? > > Thanks, > > Martin > > > > On Aug 14, 2009, at 6:58 AM, William Gropp wrote: > > > I will be there. > > Bill > > > > On Aug 14, 2009, at 8:45 AM, Marc-Andre Hermanns wrote: > > > >> Hi all, > >> > >> as Rich now asked on the forum mailing list, I wanted to ask who of > >> us > >> will be in Helsinki. As far as I know Martin will not be there, > >> however, > >> if we are enough people on the topic it might be useful to discuss > >> the > >> current topics face-to-face. What do you think? > >> > >> To start the list, I will be there: > >> > >> [x] Marc-Andre Hermanns (FZJ) > >> > >> Best regards, > >> Marc-Andre > >> -- > >> Marc-Andre Hermanns > >> Juelich Supercomputing Centre > >> Institute for Advanced Simulation > >> Forschungszentrum Juelich GmbH > >> D-52425 Juelich > >> Germany > >> > >> Phone : +49-2461-61-2054 > >> Fax : +49-2461-61-6656 > >> eMail : m.a.hermanns(a)fz-juelich.de > >> WWW : http://*www.*fz-juelich.de/jsc/ > >> > >> JSC is the coordinator of the > >> John von Neumann Institute for Computing > >> and member of the > >> Gauss Centre for Supercomputing > >> > >> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Juelich > >> Eingetragen im Handelsregister des Amtsgerichts Dueren Nr. HR B > 3498 > >> Vorsitzende des Aufsichtsrats: MinDir'in Baerbel Brumme-Bothe > >> Geschaeftsfuehrung: Prof. Dr. Achim Bachem (Vorsitzender), > >> Dr. Ulrich Krafft (stellv. Vorsitzender), > >> Prof. Dr. Harald Bolt, > >> Prof. Dr. Sebastian M. Schmidt > >> <smime.p7s><ATT00001.txt> > > > > William Gropp > > Deputy Director for Research > > Institute for Advanced Computing Applications and Technologies > > Paul and Cynthia Saylor Professor of Computer Science > > University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mpi3-tools mailing list > > Mpi3-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > > http://*lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi3-tools > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > Martin Schulz, schulzm(a)llnl.gov, http://people.llnl.gov/schulzm > CASC @ Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Livermore, USA > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mpi3-tools mailing list > Mpi3-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi3-tools > -- Jeff Squyres jsquyres(a)cisco.com

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Re: [Mpi3-tools] WG meeting in Helsinki
by Martin Schulz 14 Aug '09

14 Aug '09

Thanks, Marc-Andre, for getting this started. As you mentioned, I will not be able to make it, hence I would also need a volunteer to coordinate and run the meeting. Further, for people in the US to dial in, it would also be necessary to move this into the late afternoon. I expect that at that time we should be (at least partially) back on the debug APIs - is anyone from Totalview and/or Alinea going to be at the meeting? Thanks, Martin On Aug 14, 2009, at 6:58 AM, William Gropp wrote: > I will be there. > Bill > > On Aug 14, 2009, at 8:45 AM, Marc-Andre Hermanns wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> as Rich now asked on the forum mailing list, I wanted to ask who of >> us >> will be in Helsinki. As far as I know Martin will not be there, >> however, >> if we are enough people on the topic it might be useful to discuss >> the >> current topics face-to-face. What do you think? >> >> To start the list, I will be there: >> >> [x] Marc-Andre Hermanns (FZJ) >> >> Best regards, >> Marc-Andre >> -- >> Marc-Andre Hermanns >> Juelich Supercomputing Centre >> Institute for Advanced Simulation >> Forschungszentrum Juelich GmbH >> D-52425 Juelich >> Germany >> >> Phone : +49-2461-61-2054 >> Fax : +49-2461-61-6656 >> eMail : m.a.hermanns(a)fz-juelich.de >> WWW : http://*www.*fz-juelich.de/jsc/ >> >> JSC is the coordinator of the >> John von Neumann Institute for Computing >> and member of the >> Gauss Centre for Supercomputing >> >> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Juelich >> Eingetragen im Handelsregister des Amtsgerichts Dueren Nr. HR B 3498 >> Vorsitzende des Aufsichtsrats: MinDir'in Baerbel Brumme-Bothe >> Geschaeftsfuehrung: Prof. Dr. Achim Bachem (Vorsitzender), >> Dr. Ulrich Krafft (stellv. Vorsitzender), >> Prof. Dr. Harald Bolt, >> Prof. Dr. Sebastian M. Schmidt >> <smime.p7s><ATT00001.txt> > > William Gropp > Deputy Director for Research > Institute for Advanced Computing Applications and Technologies > Paul and Cynthia Saylor Professor of Computer Science > University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mpi3-tools mailing list > Mpi3-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > http://*lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi3-tools > _______________________________________________________________________ Martin Schulz, schulzm(a)llnl.gov, http://people.llnl.gov/schulzm CASC @ Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Livermore, USA

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Re: [Mpi3-tools] WG meeting in Helsinki
by William Gropp 14 Aug '09

14 Aug '09

I will be there. Bill On Aug 14, 2009, at 8:45 AM, Marc-Andre Hermanns wrote: > Hi all, > > as Rich now asked on the forum mailing list, I wanted to ask who of us > will be in Helsinki. As far as I know Martin will not be there, > however, > if we are enough people on the topic it might be useful to discuss the > current topics face-to-face. What do you think? > > To start the list, I will be there: > > [x] Marc-Andre Hermanns (FZJ) > > Best regards, > Marc-Andre > -- > Marc-Andre Hermanns > Juelich Supercomputing Centre > Institute for Advanced Simulation > Forschungszentrum Juelich GmbH > D-52425 Juelich > Germany > > Phone : +49-2461-61-2054 > Fax : +49-2461-61-6656 > eMail : m.a.hermanns(a)fz-juelich.de > WWW : http://www.fz-juelich.de/jsc/ > > JSC is the coordinator of the > John von Neumann Institute for Computing > and member of the > Gauss Centre for Supercomputing > > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Juelich > Eingetragen im Handelsregister des Amtsgerichts Dueren Nr. HR B 3498 > Vorsitzende des Aufsichtsrats: MinDir'in Baerbel Brumme-Bothe > Geschaeftsfuehrung: Prof. Dr. Achim Bachem (Vorsitzender), > Dr. Ulrich Krafft (stellv. Vorsitzender), > Prof. Dr. Harald Bolt, > Prof. Dr. Sebastian M. Schmidt > <smime.p7s><ATT00001.txt> William Gropp Deputy Director for Research Institute for Advanced Computing Applications and Technologies Paul and Cynthia Saylor Professor of Computer Science University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign

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[Mpi3-tools] WG meeting in Helsinki
by Marc-Andre Hermanns 14 Aug '09

14 Aug '09

Hi all, as Rich now asked on the forum mailing list, I wanted to ask who of us will be in Helsinki. As far as I know Martin will not be there, however, if we are enough people on the topic it might be useful to discuss the current topics face-to-face. What do you think? To start the list, I will be there: [x] Marc-Andre Hermanns (FZJ) Best regards, Marc-Andre -- Marc-Andre Hermanns Juelich Supercomputing Centre Institute for Advanced Simulation Forschungszentrum Juelich GmbH D-52425 Juelich Germany Phone : +49-2461-61-2054 Fax : +49-2461-61-6656 eMail : m.a.hermanns(a)fz-juelich.de WWW : http://www.fz-juelich.de/jsc/ JSC is the coordinator of the John von Neumann Institute for Computing and member of the Gauss Centre for Supercomputing Sitz der Gesellschaft: Juelich Eingetragen im Handelsregister des Amtsgerichts Dueren Nr. HR B 3498 Vorsitzende des Aufsichtsrats: MinDir'in Baerbel Brumme-Bothe Geschaeftsfuehrung: Prof. Dr. Achim Bachem (Vorsitzender), Dr. Ulrich Krafft (stellv. Vorsitzender), Prof. Dr. Harald Bolt, Prof. Dr. Sebastian M. Schmidt

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Re: [Mpi3-tools] Meeting Minutes / Hot Button Issues / Next Meeting
by Jeff Squyres 14 Aug '09

14 Aug '09

On Aug 12, 2009, at 3:09 PM, John DelSignore wrote: > > It strikes me that TVT/Allinea might have experience in this area > > (general name/type/value registration). > > Sorry, I couldn't attend the concall, so I'm not sure I follow 100% > what you are trying to accomplish. > > Representing a type is not too complicated, but that depends on the > language (C, C++, Fortran, etc) and the kind of type (e.g., integer, > float, complex, aggregate, array, pointer, reference, etc.). > Generally, debug information schemes like STABS and DWARF (which are > commonly used on most Unix systems), allow the compiler and language > to name the type, and provide the properties of the type. For > example, "int" in C may be the same kind of type as "INTEGER*4" in > Fortran: e.g., a 4-byte signed integer. > The general idea here was that the proposal was seeking to have a registration system that MPI implementations could register a variety of run-time tunable parameters and run-time available information values -- we talked about this on a con call when the Forum was meeting in Chicago. We continued the discussion the other day, but it devolved into "we need lots of different types" / "do the types need to match the MPI datatypes" / "do we need to MPI_SEND/MPI_RECV these values around" / "what about complex types?" / etc. I suggested that the proposal authors should look to other sources for inspiration rather than re-invent the wheel (if possible) because this problem space shares many similarities with other systems. For example, CORBA-like systems have long since "solved" the serialization/ de-serialization issue (ser/de-ser is a different problem, but it shares many similar characteristics). And debuggers already have a system for identifying types of symbols in executables, printing and assigning the correct types to them interactively at run-time, etc. At their heart, these systems are just mappings of names to meta types (like type, value, etc.). I'm just suggesting that we look to others to see if there's knowledge / techniques that might be useful to re- use here rather than make it up anew, possibly ignoring some hard-won knowledge that others have gleaned from doing similar / analogous systems. Hopefully that rambling made sense... -- Jeff Squyres jsquyres(a)cisco.com

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Re: [Mpi3-tools] Meeting Minutes / Hot Button Issues / Next Meeting
by John DelSignore 12 Aug '09

12 Aug '09

Jeff Squyres wrote: > On Aug 10, 2009, at 7:49 PM, Martin Schulz wrote: > >> - Are there existing schemes (from CORBA/DCOM or debuggers in general) on >> how to represent names for types and enum members? >> > > It strikes me that TVT/Allinea might have experience in this area > (general name/type/value registration). Sorry, I couldn't attend the concall, so I'm not sure I follow 100% what you are trying to accomplish. Representing a type is not too complicated, but that depends on the language (C, C++, Fortran, etc) and the kind of type (e.g., integer, float, complex, aggregate, array, pointer, reference, etc.). Generally, debug information schemes like STABS and DWARF (which are commonly used on most Unix systems), allow the compiler and language to name the type, and provide the properties of the type. For example, "int" in C may be the same kind of type as "INTEGER*4" in Fortran: e.g., a 4-byte signed integer. I'll need more context before I can recommend a scheme. Cheers, John D. > --Jeff Squyres > jsquyres(a)cisco.com > > _______________________________________________ > Mpi3-tools mailing list > Mpi3-tools(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi3-tools > >

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Re: [Mpi3-tools] Meeting Minutes / Hot Button Issues / Next Meeting
by Jeff Squyres 11 Aug '09

11 Aug '09

On Aug 10, 2009, at 7:49 PM, Martin Schulz wrote: > - Which language bindings do we want? (C for sure, Fortran?) > My $0.20 is C only. :-) > - Are there existing schemes (from CORBA/DCOM or debuggers in > general) on > how to represent names for types and enum members? > It strikes me that TVT/Allinea might have experience in this area (general name/type/value registration). -- Jeff Squyres jsquyres(a)cisco.com

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[Mpi3-tools] Meeting Minutes / Hot Button Issues / Next Meeting
by Martin Schulz 10 Aug '09

10 Aug '09

Hi all, The minutes from today's meeting are on the Wiki at the usual place. During the meeting we came across several issues that we need feedback for from a larger group. Please comment on them, either via the mail list or at the next meeting: - How can we handle pre-MPI_Init calls to PIMPI? - Impact on type system, which may not be initialized? - Can we require types to be equivalent with MPI types? - Which language bindings do we want? (C for sure, Fortran?) - How are variables handled in the various MPIs and how can they best be represented as handles? Is it normal to have handles anyway or would handles for everything be too resources consuming? - Are there existing schemes (from CORBA/DCOM or debuggers in general) on how to represent names for types and enum members? For the next meeting we plan on continuing the PIMPI API discussion starting with the counter state variables starting on slide 11 (and hopefully finish it) - after that the plan is to transition to the MPIR successor. The next meeting is on 8/24 at the usual time at 8am PDT. We'll again be using Webex - the link for the meeting is on the Wiki. Martin _______________________________________________________________________ Martin Schulz, schulzm(a)llnl.gov, http://people.llnl.gov/schulzm CASC @ Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, Livermore, USA

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