June 2023 - mpiwg-sessions - mailman3.cels.anl.gov

Re: [mpiwg-sessions] Meet at 9 AM US CDT today
by Rolf Rabenseifner 29 Jun '23

29 Jun '23

Dear Howard and whole sessions WG, I just checked all MPI-4.1 issues and related pull requests, whether (1) they have, (2) they have not, but should have, (3) they should not have and have not a change-log entry. Problematic is category (2). Do the following issues/pull request contain any changes that are relevant for implementors and/or users of MPI? #434 PR-618 Sessions: need to clarify limitations when mixing the sessions model with dynamic process model #545 PR-657 MPI_LASTUSEDCODE not covered in the sessions model #588 PR-644 Clarification of errhandler fallback with Sessions Especially if a change-log entry is needed and missing, the implementors may never detect this change. Please check carefully. If a change-log entry is needed, a new issue plus PR should be produced before the July meeting and please add the "chapter committee" tag. Best regards Rolf -- Dr. Rolf Rabenseifner . . . . . . . . . .. . . rabenseifner(a)hlrs.de . High Performance Computing Center (HLRS) . . . ++49(0)711/685-65530 . University of Stuttgart . . . . . . www.hlrs.de/people/rabenseifner . Nobelstr. 19, 70569 Stuttgart, Germany

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Sessions WG - meet on 7/3/23 ?
by Pritchard Jr., Howard 29 Jun '23

29 Jun '23

Hi All, I was not able to attend last week’s meeting so missed out on some of the lively discussion around https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-issues/issues/710 It looks like from Martin’s notes (thanks Martin!) that a consensus was reached on Alternative A vs B. Is there still need to discussion Option C further? I’m leaning toward “without option C” but am waffling. Should we discuss issue 710 further? If so, let’s meet. Otherwise I’m leaning toward canceling as attendance from the US side will probably be pretty light given the 7/4 holiday. Howard — [signature_61897647] Howard Pritchard Research Scientist HPC-ENV Los Alamos National Laboratory howardp(a)lanl.gov [signature_3102603748]<https://www.instagram.com/losalamosnatlab/>[signature_2788256765]<https://twitter.com/LosAlamosNatLab>[signature_2488626790]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/los-alamos-national-laboratory/>[signature_2759557502]<https://www.facebook.com/LosAlamosNationalLab/>

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Minutes for MPI Session meeting with special guest Rolf
by Martin SCHREIBER 26 Jun '23

26 Jun '23

Hi all, we intensively discussed (thanks Rolf!) the different options for the changes in the MPI standard and I thought it's good to send this around as minutes. Attendees (until the end): Joseph, Rolf, Dominik, Martin (Schreiber) I’m trying to summarize it here: First of all, there’s an alternative A and B: ================================ * Alternative A: Changing MPI Sessions (starting/finishing) might lead to non-optimal utilization of MPI derived data types. This would be communicated to the implementors and they are supposed to fix. ** Obviously, this puts more effort for the implementors to get it done. ** We discussed the realization of this. There have been some thoughts that this would lead to overheads each time a communication is done to check for this, but then came to the conclusion that these overheads are always required: Data Types are defined without being specific to communicators. Hence, they need to be optimized in an lazy way or a- priory (or something in between). As a consequence, there would be always overheads and we don’t expect any additional overheads for this option A. ** This also follows the main principle of the MPI implementation to be easy usable. * Alternative B: Derived data types might not be optimal anymore after changing MPI Sessions. ** This would put a lot of burden on the users. ** In particular, it’s not clear how to “recommit” datatypes in order to optimize this. ** Users don't want to live with the situation that data types might suddenly be less efficiently usable. => We (Rolf, Joseph, Dominik & Martin) all agreed to "Alternative A" (which doesn't mean that this is final) The second issue is about "with or without option C": ================================ * With option C: ** Requires users to care about everything on their own to free handlers at finalize. ** This breaks with libraries / tools to easily switch to sessions. * Without option C: ** There would be just a recommendation to users to free handlers explicitly. ** This recommendation could be incentivize by tools such as MUST (pointing out the user that with Sessions, the handles, etc. should be freed). => We all agreed that without option C would be the best solution. Again, this is just our opinion and shouldn't be seen as a final decision (unless you all agree). All the best, Martin & the others -- Prof. Dr. Martin Schreiber Applied Mathematics | High Perf. Scientific Comp. for PDEs Université Grenoble Alpes | Lab. Jean Kuntzmann | INRIA, France For Time-X Euro-HPC project: TUM School of CIT, Technical University of Munich, Germany

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Sessions WG meeting June 26, 2023 today AND vote announcement for the July 2023 meeting of the MPI Forum
by Rolf Rabenseifner 26 Jun '23

26 Jun '23

Dear all and dear sessions WG, latest update to #710 / PR823 for the voting meeting July 2023: https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-standard/files/11866140/mpi41-report_Issue… Further details, please see below. This is also the final input for the sessions WG meeting today !!! new time-slot is Monday 4 PM CEST in Europe = 9 AM CDT in US Please be aware that this proposal still contains 2 orthogonal options (A or B, and without or with C). The Sessions WG meeting today may help to already consolidate - the decision between A or B and/or the - the discision whether withot C or with C. Details of all 4 scheduled errata-reading+votes: __________________________ #710 Errata: 'Pending communication' not defined in MPI_Comm_disconnect Rolf & Sessions WG Issue https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-issues/issues/710 PR https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-standard/pull/823 PDF from June 26, 2023 https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-standard/files/11866140/mpi41-report_Issue… Pre-reading on meeting June 21, 2023: all issues from the reading fixed. Scheduled for errata reading+vote at the July 2023 Forum meeting This issue #710/PR823 contains 4 different proposals, and all 4 proposals are hereby proposed for reading and voting: - With Option A and without Option C, - With Option B and without Option C, - With Option A and with Option C, and - With Option B and with Option C. At the July meeting, it is planned to first do two (orthogonal) staw votes: - whether Option A or B is preferred, and - whether without Option C or with Option C. Based on the result of these two straw votes, only one of the 4 proposals will be presented for the voting of Issue #710/PR823. __________________________ #676 Errata: 'Pending operation' not defined, pending proper definition Rolf,Joseph Issue https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-issues/issues/676 PR https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-standard/pull/825 PDF from June 15, 2023: https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-standard/files/11760940/mpi41-report_Issue… Defining "pending operation" as "active operation" (see page 12) Pre-reading on meeting June 21, 2023. and errata reading+vote at the July 2023 Forum meeting __________________________ #679 Errata: Noncollective (for procedure) and nonpersistent are not defined Rolf Issue https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-issues/issues/679 PR https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-standard/pull/820 PDF from May 9, 2023 (last real change from May 2 (pre-reading)) https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-standard/files/11432286/mpi41-report_Issue… Pre-reading at May 2, 2023 voting meeting: all issues from the reading fixed. Scheduled for errata reading+vote at the July 2023 Forum meeting __________________________ #705 Errata: Fortran has only compile-time constants Rolf,Joseph Issue https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-issues/issues/705 (together with https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-issues/issues/657 Rolf, Jeff H.) PR https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-standard/pull/822 PDF from June 20, 2023 https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-standard/files/11800606/mpi41-report_Issue… Pre-reading at June 7, 2023 meeting: all issues from the reading fixed. Scheduled for errata reading+vote at the July 2023 Forum meeting Kind regards Rolf -- Dr. Rolf Rabenseifner . . . . . . . . . .. . . rabenseifner(a)hlrs.de . High Performance Computing Center (HLRS) . . . ++49(0)711/685-65530 . University of Stuttgart . . . . . . www.hlrs.de/people/rabenseifner . Nobelstr. 19, 70569 Stuttgart, Germany

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Re: [mpiwg-sessions] Unable to attend Sessions WG meeting 6/26 but...
by Rolf Rabenseifner 23 Jun '23

23 Jun '23

Dear all, > I have a conflict and will not be able to attend the 6/26 Sessions WG meeting, > but if others want to carry on with discussion of > > [ https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-standard/pull/823 | > https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-standard/pull/823 ] Yes, we can meet. I'll finalize the PR 823 and its pdf based on all the reviews I received yesterday (and today) and will announce it (deadline is June 26) to the MPI forum. Because not all sessions WG member could attend in the last two WG meetings, it would be helpful, that the sessions WG can discuss already before the July forum meeting the preferences for the two straw votes: whether - whether option A or option B is prefered, and - without option C or with option C is prefered. May be that the WG already achieves a consolidated opinion. > As a reminder the meeting time is now at 4 PM central European time (using this > time zone as the zoom meeting is scheduled in that time zone). Monday 4 PM CEST in Europe = 9 AM CDT in US > We are using the same zoom link information. Best regards - and probably til Monday Rolf ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pritchard Jr., Howard via mpiwg-sessions" <mpiwg-sessions(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> > To: "MPI Sessions working group" <mpiwg-sessions(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> > Cc: "Pritchard" <howardp(a)lanl.gov> > Sent: Friday, June 23, 2023 6:30:42 PM > Subject: [mpiwg-sessions] Unable to attend Sessions WG meeting 6/26 but... > I have a conflict and will not be able to attend the 6/26 Sessions WG meeting, > but if others want to carry on with discussion of > > [ https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-standard/pull/823 | > https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-standard/pull/823 ] > > > > please go ahead and meet. > > > > As a reminder the meeting time is now at 4 PM central European time (using this > time zone as the zoom meeting is scheduled in that time zone). > > > > We are using the same zoom link information. > > > > Have a nice weekend, > > > > Howard > > > > > > — > > > > > > > Howard Pritchard > > Research Scientist > > HPC-ENV > > > > Los Alamos National Laboratory > > howardp(a)lanl.gov > > > > [ https://www.instagram.com/losalamosnatlab/ ] [ > https://twitter.com/LosAlamosNatLab ] [ > https://www.linkedin.com/company/los-alamos-national-laboratory/ ] [ > https://www.facebook.com/LosAlamosNationalLab/ ] > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > mpiwg-sessions mailing list > mpiwg-sessions(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-sessions -- Dr. Rolf Rabenseifner . . . . . . . . . .. . . rabenseifner(a)hlrs.de . High Performance Computing Center (HLRS) . . . ++49(0)711/685-65530 . University of Stuttgart . . . . . . www.hlrs.de/people/rabenseifner . Nobelstr. 19, 70569 Stuttgart, Germany

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Unable to attend Sessions WG meeting 6/26 but...
by Pritchard Jr., Howard 23 Jun '23

23 Jun '23

I have a conflict and will not be able to attend the 6/26 Sessions WG meeting, but if others want to carry on with discussion of https://github.com/mpi-forum/mpi-standard/pull/823 please go ahead and meet. As a reminder the meeting time is now at 4 PM central European time (using this time zone as the zoom meeting is scheduled in that time zone). We are using the same zoom link information. Have a nice weekend, Howard — [signature_61897647] Howard Pritchard Research Scientist HPC-ENV Los Alamos National Laboratory howardp(a)lanl.gov [signature_1723449581]<https://www.instagram.com/losalamosnatlab/>[signature_1226904855]<https://twitter.com/LosAlamosNatLab>[signature_2843075190]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/los-alamos-national-laboratory/>[signature_895588444]<https://www.facebook.com/LosAlamosNationalLab/>

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Re: [mpiwg-sessions] [EXTERNAL] Re: Meet at 9 AM US CDT today - now 12 PM US CDT TODAY!
by Holmes, Daniel John 19 Jun '23

19 Jun '23

Hi all, Apologies, I got help up in my previous meeting -- I'm available for the rest of this hour, but I can join later at 6pm (UK) / 12pm (US Central). Best wishes, Dan. -----Original Message----- From: mpiwg-sessions <mpiwg-sessions-bounces(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> On Behalf Of Pritchard Jr., Howard via mpiwg-sessions Sent: Monday, June 19, 2023 3:07 PM To: Rolf Rabenseifner <rabenseifner(a)hlrs.de>; MPI Sessions working group <mpiwg-sessions(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> Cc: Pritchard Jr., Howard <howardp(a)lanl.gov> Subject: Re: [mpiwg-sessions] [EXTERNAL] Re: Meet at 9 AM US CDT today - now 12 PM US CDT TODAY! Well that didn't work. Let's try again for 12 PM US CDT today 6/19/23. Sorry for the confusion, Howard On 6/19/23, 8:01 AM, "mpiwg-sessions on behalf of Rolf Rabenseifner via mpiwg-sessions" <mpiwg-sessions-bounces(a)lists.mpi-forum.org <mailto:[email protected]> on behalf of mpiwg-sessions(a)lists.mpi-forum.org <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Howard, are you already logged in? Because I'm in the meeting and I used the Sessions webpage Welcome to the Sessions WG private wiki Regular teleconference meeting details (after 10/19/20) Kind regards Rolf ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pritchard Jr., Howard via mpiwg-sessions" <mpiwg-sessions(a)lists.mpi-forum.org <mailto:[email protected]>> > To: "MPI Sessions working group" <mpiwg-sessions(a)lists.mpi-forum.org <mailto:[email protected]>> > Cc: "Pritchard" <howardp(a)lanl.gov <mailto:[email protected]>> > Sent: Monday, June 19, 2023 3:52:24 PM > Subject: [mpiwg-sessions] Meet at 9 AM US CDT today > Hi All, > > > > Per Rolf’s request we will be meeting today at 9AM. > > Existing zoom link should work. > > > > Sorry for the very short notice. > > > > Howard > > > > > > > > — > > > > > > > Howard Pritchard > > Research Scientist > > HPC-ENV > > > > Los Alamos National Laboratory > > howardp(a)lanl.gov <mailto:[email protected]> > > > > [ https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.instagram.com/losalamosnatlab/__;!!… <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.instagram.com/losalamosnatlab/__;!!…> ] [ > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://twitter.com/LosAlamosNatLab__;!!Bt8fGhp… <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://twitter.com/LosAlamosNatLab__;!!Bt8fGhp…> ] [ > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/company/los-alamos-nat… <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/company/los-alamos-nat…> ] [ > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.facebook.com/LosAlamosNationalLab/_… <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.facebook.com/LosAlamosNationalLab/_…> ] > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > mpiwg-sessions mailing list > mpiwg-sessions(a)lists.mpi-forum.org <mailto:[email protected]> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mp… <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mp…> -- Dr. Rolf Rabenseifner . . . . . . . . . .. . . rabenseifner(a)hlrs.de <mailto:[email protected]> . High Performance Computing Center (HLRS) . . . ++49(0)711/685-65530 . University of Stuttgart . . . . . . https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.hlrs.de/people/rabenseifner__;!!Bt8f… <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.hlrs.de/people/rabenseifner__;!!Bt8f…> . Nobelstr. 19, 70569 Stuttgart, Germany _______________________________________________ mpiwg-sessions mailing list mpiwg-sessions(a)lists.mpi-forum.org https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-sessions

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Re: [mpiwg-sessions] [EXTERNAL] Re: Meet at 9 AM US CDT today - now 12 PM US CDT TODAY!
by Pritchard Jr., Howard 19 Jun '23

19 Jun '23

Well that didn't work. Let's try again for 12 PM US CDT today 6/19/23. Sorry for the confusion, Howard On 6/19/23, 8:01 AM, "mpiwg-sessions on behalf of Rolf Rabenseifner via mpiwg-sessions" <mpiwg-sessions-bounces(a)lists.mpi-forum.org <mailto:[email protected]> on behalf of mpiwg-sessions(a)lists.mpi-forum.org <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Howard, are you already logged in? Because I'm in the meeting and I used the Sessions webpage Welcome to the Sessions WG private wiki Regular teleconference meeting details (after 10/19/20) Kind regards Rolf ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pritchard Jr., Howard via mpiwg-sessions" <mpiwg-sessions(a)lists.mpi-forum.org <mailto:[email protected]>> > To: "MPI Sessions working group" <mpiwg-sessions(a)lists.mpi-forum.org <mailto:[email protected]>> > Cc: "Pritchard" <howardp(a)lanl.gov <mailto:[email protected]>> > Sent: Monday, June 19, 2023 3:52:24 PM > Subject: [mpiwg-sessions] Meet at 9 AM US CDT today > Hi All, > > > > Per Rolf’s request we will be meeting today at 9AM. > > Existing zoom link should work. > > > > Sorry for the very short notice. > > > > Howard > > > > > > > > — > > > > > > > Howard Pritchard > > Research Scientist > > HPC-ENV > > > > Los Alamos National Laboratory > > howardp(a)lanl.gov <mailto:[email protected]> > > > > [ https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.instagram.com/losalamosnatlab/__;!!… <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.instagram.com/losalamosnatlab/__;!!…> ] [ > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://twitter.com/LosAlamosNatLab__;!!Bt8fGhp… <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://twitter.com/LosAlamosNatLab__;!!Bt8fGhp…> ] [ > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/company/los-alamos-nat… <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/company/los-alamos-nat…> ] [ > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.facebook.com/LosAlamosNationalLab/_… <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.facebook.com/LosAlamosNationalLab/_…> ] > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > mpiwg-sessions mailing list > mpiwg-sessions(a)lists.mpi-forum.org <mailto:[email protected]> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mp… <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mp…> -- Dr. Rolf Rabenseifner . . . . . . . . . .. . . rabenseifner(a)hlrs.de <mailto:[email protected]> . High Performance Computing Center (HLRS) . . . ++49(0)711/685-65530 . University of Stuttgart . . . . . . https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.hlrs.de/people/rabenseifner__;!!Bt8f… <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.hlrs.de/people/rabenseifner__;!!Bt8f…> . Nobelstr. 19, 70569 Stuttgart, Germany

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Re: [mpiwg-sessions] Meet at 9 AM US CDT today
by Rolf Rabenseifner 19 Jun '23

19 Jun '23

Howard, are you already logged in? Because I'm in the meeting and I used the Sessions webpage Welcome to the Sessions WG private wiki Regular teleconference meeting details (after 10/19/20) Kind regards Rolf ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pritchard Jr., Howard via mpiwg-sessions" <mpiwg-sessions(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> > To: "MPI Sessions working group" <mpiwg-sessions(a)lists.mpi-forum.org> > Cc: "Pritchard" <howardp(a)lanl.gov> > Sent: Monday, June 19, 2023 3:52:24 PM > Subject: [mpiwg-sessions] Meet at 9 AM US CDT today > Hi All, > > > > Per Rolf’s request we will be meeting today at 9AM. > > Existing zoom link should work. > > > > Sorry for the very short notice. > > > > Howard > > > > > > > > — > > > > > > > Howard Pritchard > > Research Scientist > > HPC-ENV > > > > Los Alamos National Laboratory > > howardp(a)lanl.gov > > > > [ https://www.instagram.com/losalamosnatlab/ ] [ > https://twitter.com/LosAlamosNatLab ] [ > https://www.linkedin.com/company/los-alamos-national-laboratory/ ] [ > https://www.facebook.com/LosAlamosNationalLab/ ] > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > mpiwg-sessions mailing list > mpiwg-sessions(a)lists.mpi-forum.org > https://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo/mpiwg-sessions -- Dr. Rolf Rabenseifner . . . . . . . . . .. . . rabenseifner(a)hlrs.de . High Performance Computing Center (HLRS) . . . ++49(0)711/685-65530 . University of Stuttgart . . . . . . www.hlrs.de/people/rabenseifner . Nobelstr. 19, 70569 Stuttgart, Germany

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Meet at 9 AM US CDT today
by Pritchard Jr., Howard 19 Jun '23

19 Jun '23

Hi All, Per Rolf’s request we will be meeting today at 9AM. Existing zoom link should work. Sorry for the very short notice. Howard — [signature_61897647] Howard Pritchard Research Scientist HPC-ENV Los Alamos National Laboratory howardp(a)lanl.gov [signature_40961643]<https://www.instagram.com/losalamosnatlab/>[signature_1109009843]<https://twitter.com/LosAlamosNatLab>[signature_2940701524]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/los-alamos-national-laboratory/>[signature_3765002369]<https://www.facebook.com/LosAlamosNationalLab/>

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