- Mpi3-subsetting - mailman3.cels.anl.gov

Re: [Mpi3-subsetting] MPI subsetting: charting the way forward at atelecon next week?
by unknown＠example.com 19 Jun '08

19 Jun '08

Hi everybody, Thank you for your time today. Here's what we discussed: Present: Mark Schulz (LLNL), Reiner Keller (HLRS), Alexander Supalov (Intel) - Opens - Alexander is not going to be in Menlo Park, will work with Rich to find an adequate solution - Subsetting: way forward - Subsetting in its extreme form (all of the standard is composed of subsets that have user defined hierarchies, attach to opaque objects, etc.) does not seem to be terribly practicable. However, architectural influence, performance, and memory footprint aspects of subsetting warrant further research and discussion in this area. - During the discussion so far we've considered several proposals that apparently go in the subsetting direction, or at least overlap in some parts with the subsetting idea, in that they allow control of the essential aspects related to performance and memory footprint. The WG feels compelled to express their opinion about some of these ideas as follows: - Runtime - The subsetting WG supports Dick Treumann's MPI_Init time int based assertion proposal as expressed in a series of emails, and encourages creation of a full proposal, with the following notes: - The set of standard assertions should be settled and accepted by all implementors - The question of allowing or disallowing implementation specific assertions should be resolved - The distinction between assertions and hints should be formulated in a way understandable to a first time user - The matter of underlying libraries and tools in their relation to assertions should be clarified - It looks that tools that intercept the MPI_Init_* call family will be able to deal with assertions they cannot support by basically ignoring them - Layered underlying libraries are unlikely to be allowed to change assertions already in effect, or adding their own assertions on top of them. These libraries should either adapt themselves to the defined assertions, or bail out - The subsetting WG would like to see more details of Jeff Squyres' proposal on Info based data passing in and out of MPI library before it expresses its opinion, with the following notes: - The effect of setting certain internal thresholds, like eager threshold, should be considered as a collective action on all processes - Generally, the WG does not see a compelling need for assertions/hints/subsets to be attached to the communicator/window/file or other MPI entities, as this does not seem to be directly usable for performance increase or memory footprint reduction - Link time - The WG does not see the need to either specify or prohibit specific link time arrangements like various library names, versions, combinations, dynamic loading thereof, etc. The details should be left to the implementation, with the ABI and compatibility aspects in mind. - Compile time - The WG encourages Reiner Keller to produce a full proposal, minding the ABI and application/MPI compatibility aspects - Actions - Please provide feedback to these minutes by end of week - Alexander will change the proposal in the Wiki accordingly by the time of the MPI Forum meeting Best regards. Alexander ________________________________ From: Supalov, Alexander Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 2:43 PM To: 'MPI 3.0 Sub-setting working group' Subject: RE: [Mpi3-subsetting] MPI subsetting: charting the way forward at atelecon next week? Hi everybody, Basing on the overwhelming silence, I propose that we meet on Thursday, June 19, 2008, 9:00 am PDT/noon EDT/18:00 CEST Outside Intel: +1-916-356-2663, Inside Intel: 8-356-2663, Bridge: 4, Passcode: 1459440 - Opens - Subsetting: way forward Best regards. Alexander ________________________________ From: Supalov, Alexander Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 6:55 PM To: 'MPI 3.0 Sub-setting working group' Subject: RE: [Mpi3-subsetting] MPI subsetting: charting the way forward at atelecon next week? Hi everybody, >From the few replies I've got (thanks!), we're not going to have a quorum next week. Let's shoot for the week after that: Monday, June 16, 2008, 9:00 am PDT/noon EDT/18:00 CEST yes/no/plan B Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 9:00 am PDT/noon EDT/18:00 CEST yes/no/plan B Thursday, June 19, 2008, 9:00 am PDT/noon EDT/18:00 CEST yes/no/plan B Best regards. Alexander ________________________________ From: mpi3-subsetting-bounces_at_[hidden] [mailto:mpi3-subsetting-bounces_at_[hidden]] On Behalf Of Supalov, Alexander Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 6:29 PM To: mpi3-subsetting_at_[hidden] Subject: [Mpi3-subsetting] MPI subsetting: charting the way forward at atelecon next week? Hi everybody, It looks to me that we're on subsetting crossroads at the moment. There was a lot of good analysis so far, but I'm afraid we're slow on moving towards comparably sized synthesis. On one hand, we have a rather well defined and strictly aimed proposal from Dick that might fit into MPI-2.2 framework and is somewhat related to subsetting. We also have a wider proposal from Jeff, which also has interesting repercussions in the client/MPI data exchange area, potentially usable well outside of the subsetting per se. On the other hand we have a lot of things coming into the standard in MPI-3, and still no clear way to manage this complexity and cater for special purpose MPI configurations that may be necessary for MPI to expand to new areas. Moreover, the meeting in Chicago showed that not everybody agrees that introducing flexibility or going beyond the traditional HPC is a good idea at all. On this backdrop, I'd suggest we should meet on the phone before the Forum gathering in Menlo Park, and try to develop a workable proposition how subsetting can find its way into the standard. I happen to have time for such a meeting on the following days next week: Tuesday, May 10, 2008, 8:00 am PDT/11:00 am EDT/17:00 CDT yes/no/plan B Wednesday, May 11, 2008, 8:00 am PDT/11:00 am EDT/17:00 CDT yes/no/plan B Thursday, May 12, 2008, 8:00 am PDT/11:00 am EDT/17:00 CDT yes/no/plan B Please reply as usual to me whether you can make any of these slots. Best regards. Alexander PS. This time I took special care to have a subsetting slot at the F2F meeting. :) -- Dr Alexander Supalov Intel GmbH Hermuelheimer Strasse 8a 50321 Bruehl, Germany Phone: +49 2232 209034 Mobile: +49 173 511 8735 Fax: +49 2232 209029 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Intel GmbH Dornacher Strasse 1 85622 Feldkirchen/Muenchen Germany Sitz der Gesellschaft: Feldkirchen bei Muenchen Geschaeftsfuehrer: Douglas Lusk, Peter Gleissner, Hannes Schwaderer Registergericht: Muenchen HRB 47456 Ust.-IdNr. VAT Registration No.: DE129385895 Citibank Frankfurt (BLZ 502 109 00) 600119052 This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Intel GmbH Dornacher Strasse 1 85622 Feldkirchen/Muenchen Germany Sitz der Gesellschaft: Feldkirchen bei Muenchen Geschaeftsfuehrer: Douglas Lusk, Peter Gleissner, Hannes Schwaderer Registergericht: Muenchen HRB 47456 Ust.-IdNr. VAT Registration No.: DE129385895 Citibank Frankfurt (BLZ 502 109 00) 600119052 This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. *

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Re: [Mpi3-subsetting] MPI subsetting: charting the way forward at atelecon next week?
by unknown＠example.com 16 Jun '08

16 Jun '08

Sorry; was away from e-mail last week. I have a conflict and am unable to attend at noon Easter 19 June. Please don't let that hold up the teleconference; I'm just letting you know that I unfortunately can't be there. On Jun 16, 2008, at 8:42 AM, Supalov, Alexander wrote: > Hi everybody, > > Basing on the overwhelming silence, I propose that we meet on > > Thursday, June 19, 2008, 9:00 am PDT/noon EDT/18:00 CEST > Outside Intel: +1-916-356-2663, Inside Intel: 8-356-2663, Bridge: 4, > Passcode: 1459440 > - Opens > - Subsetting: way forward > > Best regards. > > Alexander > > From: Supalov, Alexander > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 6:55 PM > To: 'MPI 3.0 Sub-setting working group' > Subject: RE: [Mpi3-subsetting] MPI subsetting: charting the way > forward at atelecon next week? > > Hi everybody, > > From the few replies I've got (thanks!), we're not going to have a > quorum next week. Let's shoot for the week after that: > > Monday, June 16, 2008, 9:00 am PDT/noon EDT/18:00 CEST yes/no/ > plan B > Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 9:00 am PDT/noon EDT/18:00 CEST yes/no/ > plan B > Thursday, June 19, 2008, 9:00 am PDT/noon EDT/18:00 CEST yes/no/ > plan B > > Best regards. > > Alexander > > From: mpi3-subsetting-bounces_at_[hidden] [mailto:mpi3-subsetting-bounces_at_[hidden] > ] On Behalf Of Supalov, Alexander > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 6:29 PM > To: mpi3-subsetting_at_[hidden] > Subject: [Mpi3-subsetting] MPI subsetting: charting the way forward > at atelecon next week? > > Hi everybody, > > It looks to me that we're on subsetting crossroads at the moment. > There was a lot of good analysis so far, but I'm afraid we're slow > on moving towards comparably sized synthesis. > > On one hand, we have a rather well defined and strictly aimed > proposal from Dick that might fit into MPI-2.2 framework and is > somewhat related to subsetting. We also have a wider proposal from > Jeff, which also has interesting repercussions in the client/MPI > data exchange area, potentially usable well outside of the > subsetting per se. > > On the other hand we have a lot of things coming into the standard > in MPI-3, and still no clear way to manage this complexity and cater > for special purpose MPI configurations that may be necessary for MPI > to expand to new areas. Moreover, the meeting in Chicago showed that > not everybody agrees that introducing flexibility or going beyond > the traditional HPC is a good idea at all. > > On this backdrop, I'd suggest we should meet on the phone before the > Forum gathering in Menlo Park, and try to develop a workable > proposition how subsetting can find its way into the standard. > > I happen to have time for such a meeting on the following days next > week: > > Tuesday, May 10, 2008, 8:00 am PDT/11:00 am EDT/17:00 CDT yes/no/ > plan B > Wednesday, May 11, 2008, 8:00 am PDT/11:00 am EDT/17:00 CDT yes/ > no/plan B > Thursday, May 12, 2008, 8:00 am PDT/11:00 am EDT/17:00 CDT yes/no/ > plan B > > Please reply as usual to me whether you can make any of these slots. > > Best regards. > > Alexander > > PS. This time I took special care to have a subsetting slot at the > F2F meeting. :) > > -- > Dr Alexander Supalov > Intel GmbH > Hermuelheimer Strasse 8a > 50321 Bruehl, Germany > Phone: +49 2232 209034 > Mobile: +49 173 511 8735 > Fax: +49 2232 209029 > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Intel GmbH > Dornacher Strasse 1 > 85622 Feldkirchen/Muenchen Germany > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Feldkirchen bei Muenchen > Geschaeftsfuehrer: Douglas Lusk, Peter Gleissner, Hannes Schwaderer > Registergericht: Muenchen HRB 47456 Ust.-IdNr. > VAT Registration No.: DE129385895 > Citibank Frankfurt (BLZ 502 109 00) 600119052 > > This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for > the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution > by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended > recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Intel GmbH > Dornacher Strasse 1 > 85622 Feldkirchen/Muenchen Germany > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Feldkirchen bei Muenchen > Geschaeftsfuehrer: Douglas Lusk, Peter Gleissner, Hannes Schwaderer > Registergericht: Muenchen HRB 47456 Ust.-IdNr. > VAT Registration No.: DE129385895 > Citibank Frankfurt (BLZ 502 109 00) 600119052 > > This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for > the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution > by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended > recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. > _______________________________________________ > mpi3-subsetting mailing list > mpi3-subsetting_at_[hidden] > http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi3-subsetting -- Jeff Squyres Cisco Systems

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Re: [Mpi3-subsetting] MPI subsetting: charting the way forward at atelecon next week?
by unknown＠example.com 16 Jun '08

16 Jun '08

Hi everybody, Basing on the overwhelming silence, I propose that we meet on Thursday, June 19, 2008, 9:00 am PDT/noon EDT/18:00 CEST Outside Intel: +1-916-356-2663, Inside Intel: 8-356-2663, Bridge: 4, Passcode: 1459440 - Opens - Subsetting: way forward Best regards. Alexander ________________________________ From: Supalov, Alexander Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 6:55 PM To: 'MPI 3.0 Sub-setting working group' Subject: RE: [Mpi3-subsetting] MPI subsetting: charting the way forward at atelecon next week? Hi everybody, >From the few replies I've got (thanks!), we're not going to have a quorum next week. Let's shoot for the week after that: Monday, June 16, 2008, 9:00 am PDT/noon EDT/18:00 CEST yes/no/plan B Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 9:00 am PDT/noon EDT/18:00 CEST yes/no/plan B Thursday, June 19, 2008, 9:00 am PDT/noon EDT/18:00 CEST yes/no/plan B Best regards. Alexander ________________________________ From: mpi3-subsetting-bounces_at_[hidden] [mailto:mpi3-subsetting-bounces_at_[hidden]] On Behalf Of Supalov, Alexander Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 6:29 PM To: mpi3-subsetting_at_[hidden] Subject: [Mpi3-subsetting] MPI subsetting: charting the way forward at atelecon next week? Hi everybody, It looks to me that we're on subsetting crossroads at the moment. There was a lot of good analysis so far, but I'm afraid we're slow on moving towards comparably sized synthesis. On one hand, we have a rather well defined and strictly aimed proposal from Dick that might fit into MPI-2.2 framework and is somewhat related to subsetting. We also have a wider proposal from Jeff, which also has interesting repercussions in the client/MPI data exchange area, potentially usable well outside of the subsetting per se. On the other hand we have a lot of things coming into the standard in MPI-3, and still no clear way to manage this complexity and cater for special purpose MPI configurations that may be necessary for MPI to expand to new areas. Moreover, the meeting in Chicago showed that not everybody agrees that introducing flexibility or going beyond the traditional HPC is a good idea at all. On this backdrop, I'd suggest we should meet on the phone before the Forum gathering in Menlo Park, and try to develop a workable proposition how subsetting can find its way into the standard. I happen to have time for such a meeting on the following days next week: Tuesday, May 10, 2008, 8:00 am PDT/11:00 am EDT/17:00 CDT yes/no/plan B Wednesday, May 11, 2008, 8:00 am PDT/11:00 am EDT/17:00 CDT yes/no/plan B Thursday, May 12, 2008, 8:00 am PDT/11:00 am EDT/17:00 CDT yes/no/plan B Please reply as usual to me whether you can make any of these slots. Best regards. Alexander PS. This time I took special care to have a subsetting slot at the F2F meeting. :) -- Dr Alexander Supalov Intel GmbH Hermuelheimer Strasse 8a 50321 Bruehl, Germany Phone: +49 2232 209034 Mobile: +49 173 511 8735 Fax: +49 2232 209029 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Intel GmbH Dornacher Strasse 1 85622 Feldkirchen/Muenchen Germany Sitz der Gesellschaft: Feldkirchen bei Muenchen Geschaeftsfuehrer: Douglas Lusk, Peter Gleissner, Hannes Schwaderer Registergericht: Muenchen HRB 47456 Ust.-IdNr. VAT Registration No.: DE129385895 Citibank Frankfurt (BLZ 502 109 00) 600119052 This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Intel GmbH Dornacher Strasse 1 85622 Feldkirchen/Muenchen Germany Sitz der Gesellschaft: Feldkirchen bei Muenchen Geschaeftsfuehrer: Douglas Lusk, Peter Gleissner, Hannes Schwaderer Registergericht: Muenchen HRB 47456 Ust.-IdNr. VAT Registration No.: DE129385895 Citibank Frankfurt (BLZ 502 109 00) 600119052 This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. *

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Re: [Mpi3-subsetting] MPI subsetting: charting the way forward at atelecon next week?
by unknown＠example.com 06 Jun '08

06 Jun '08

Hi everybody, >From the few replies I've got (thanks!), we're not going to have a quorum next week. Let's shoot for the week after that: Monday, June 16, 2008, 9:00 am PDT/noon EDT/18:00 CEST yes/no/plan B Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 9:00 am PDT/noon EDT/18:00 CEST yes/no/plan B Thursday, June 19, 2008, 9:00 am PDT/noon EDT/18:00 CEST yes/no/plan B Best regards. Alexander ________________________________ From: mpi3-subsetting-bounces_at_[hidden] [mailto:mpi3-subsetting-bounces_at_[hidden]] On Behalf Of Supalov, Alexander Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 6:29 PM To: mpi3-subsetting_at_[hidden] Subject: [Mpi3-subsetting] MPI subsetting: charting the way forward at atelecon next week? Hi everybody, It looks to me that we're on subsetting crossroads at the moment. There was a lot of good analysis so far, but I'm afraid we're slow on moving towards comparably sized synthesis. On one hand, we have a rather well defined and strictly aimed proposal from Dick that might fit into MPI-2.2 framework and is somewhat related to subsetting. We also have a wider proposal from Jeff, which also has interesting repercussions in the client/MPI data exchange area, potentially usable well outside of the subsetting per se. On the other hand we have a lot of things coming into the standard in MPI-3, and still no clear way to manage this complexity and cater for special purpose MPI configurations that may be necessary for MPI to expand to new areas. Moreover, the meeting in Chicago showed that not everybody agrees that introducing flexibility or going beyond the traditional HPC is a good idea at all. On this backdrop, I'd suggest we should meet on the phone before the Forum gathering in Menlo Park, and try to develop a workable proposition how subsetting can find its way into the standard. I happen to have time for such a meeting on the following days next week: Tuesday, May 10, 2008, 8:00 am PDT/11:00 am EDT/17:00 CDT yes/no/plan B Wednesday, May 11, 2008, 8:00 am PDT/11:00 am EDT/17:00 CDT yes/no/plan B Thursday, May 12, 2008, 8:00 am PDT/11:00 am EDT/17:00 CDT yes/no/plan B Please reply as usual to me whether you can make any of these slots. Best regards. Alexander PS. This time I took special care to have a subsetting slot at the F2F meeting. :) -- Dr Alexander Supalov Intel GmbH Hermuelheimer Strasse 8a 50321 Bruehl, Germany Phone: +49 2232 209034 Mobile: +49 173 511 8735 Fax: +49 2232 209029 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Intel GmbH Dornacher Strasse 1 85622 Feldkirchen/Muenchen Germany Sitz der Gesellschaft: Feldkirchen bei Muenchen Geschaeftsfuehrer: Douglas Lusk, Peter Gleissner, Hannes Schwaderer Registergericht: Muenchen HRB 47456 Ust.-IdNr. VAT Registration No.: DE129385895 Citibank Frankfurt (BLZ 502 109 00) 600119052 This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Intel GmbH Dornacher Strasse 1 85622 Feldkirchen/Muenchen Germany Sitz der Gesellschaft: Feldkirchen bei Muenchen Geschaeftsfuehrer: Douglas Lusk, Peter Gleissner, Hannes Schwaderer Registergericht: Muenchen HRB 47456 Ust.-IdNr. VAT Registration No.: DE129385895 Citibank Frankfurt (BLZ 502 109 00) 600119052 This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. *

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Re: [Mpi3-subsetting] MPI subsetting: charting the way forward at a telecon next week?
by unknown＠example.com 04 Jun '08

04 Jun '08

Supalov, Alexander wrote: > Hi everybody, > > It looks to me that we're on subsetting crossroads at the moment. > There was a lot of good analysis so far, but I'm afraid we're slow on > moving towards comparably sized synthesis. > > On one hand, we have a rather well defined and strictly aimed proposal > from Dick that might fit into MPI-2.2 framework and is somewhat > related to subsetting. We also have a wider proposal from Jeff, > which also has interesting repercussions in the client/MPI > data exchange area, potentially usable well outside of the subsetting > per se. > > On the other hand we have a lot of things coming into the standard in > MPI-3, and still no clear way to manage this complexity and cater for > special purpose MPI configurations that may be necessary for MPI to > expand to new areas. Moreover, the meeting in Chicago showed that not > everybody agrees that introducing flexibility or going beyond the > traditional HPC is a good idea at all. > > On this backdrop, I'd suggest we should meet on the phone before the > Forum gathering in Menlo Park, and try to develop a workable > proposition how subsetting can find its way into the standard. > > I happen to have time for such a meeting on the following days next week: > > Tuesday, May 10, 2008, 8:00 am PDT/11:00 am EDT/17:00 CDT yes/no/plan B No > Wednesday, May 11, 2008, 8:00 am PDT/11:00 am EDT/17:00 CDT > yes/no/plan B No > Thursday, May 12, 2008, 8:00 am PDT/11:00 am EDT/17:00 CDT > yes/no/plan B Yes. --td > > Please reply as usual to me whether you can make any of these slots. > > Best regards. > > Alexander > > PS. This time I took special care to have a subsetting slot at the F2F > meeting. :) > > -- > Dr Alexander Supalov > Intel GmbH > Hermuelheimer Strasse 8a > 50321 Bruehl, Germany > Phone: +49 2232 209034 > Mobile: +49/ /173 511 8735 > Fax: +49 2232 209029 > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Intel GmbH > Dornacher Strasse 1 > 85622 Feldkirchen/Muenchen Germany > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Feldkirchen bei Muenchen > Geschaeftsfuehrer: Douglas Lusk, Peter Gleissner, Hannes Schwaderer > Registergericht: Muenchen HRB 47456 Ust.-IdNr. > VAT Registration No.: DE129385895 > Citibank Frankfurt (BLZ 502 109 00) 600119052 > > This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for > the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution > by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended > recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > mpi3-subsetting mailing list > mpi3-subsetting_at_[hidden] > http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi3-subsetting >

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Re: [Mpi3-subsetting] MPI subsetting: charting the way forward at a telecon next week?
by unknown＠example.com 03 Jun '08

03 Jun '08

Next week does not work for me at all. Rich On 6/3/08 12:29 PM, "Supalov, Alexander" <alexander.supalov_at_[hidden]> wrote: > Hi everybody, > > It looks to me that we're on subsetting crossroads at the moment. There was a > lot of good analysis so far, but I'm afraid we're slow on moving towards > comparably sized synthesis. > > On one hand, we have a rather well defined and strictly aimed proposal from > Dick that might fit into MPI-2.2 framework and is somewhat related to > subsetting. We also have a wider proposal from Jeff, which also has > interesting repercussions in the client/MPI data exchange area, potentially > usable well outside of the subsetting per se. > > On the other hand we have a lot of things coming into the standard in MPI-3, > and still no clear way to manage this complexity and cater for special purpose > MPI configurations that may be necessary for MPI to expand to new areas. > Moreover, the meeting in Chicago showed that not everybody agrees that > introducing flexibility or going beyond the traditional HPC is a good idea at > all. > > On this backdrop, I'd suggest we should meet on the phone before the Forum > gathering in Menlo Park, and try to develop a workable proposition how > subsetting can find its way into the standard. > > I happen to have time for such a meeting on the following days next week: > > Tuesday, May 10, 2008, 8:00 am PDT/11:00 am EDT/17:00 CDT yes/no/plan B > Wednesday, May 11, 2008, 8:00 am PDT/11:00 am EDT/17:00 CDT yes/no/plan B > Thursday, May 12, 2008, 8:00 am PDT/11:00 am EDT/17:00 CDT yes/no/plan B > > Please reply as usual to me whether you can make any of these slots. > > Best regards. > > Alexander > > PS. This time I took special care to have a subsetting slot at the F2F > meeting. :) > > -- > Dr Alexander Supalov > Intel GmbH > Hermuelheimer Strasse 8a > 50321 Bruehl, Germany > Phone: +49 2232 209034 > Mobile: +49 173 511 8735 > Fax: +49 2232 209029 > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Intel GmbH > Dornacher Strasse 1 > 85622 Feldkirchen/Muenchen Germany > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Feldkirchen bei Muenchen > Geschaeftsfuehrer: Douglas Lusk, Peter Gleissner, Hannes Schwaderer > Registergericht: Muenchen HRB 47456 Ust.-IdNr. > VAT Registration No.: DE129385895 > Citibank Frankfurt (BLZ 502 109 00) 600119052 > > This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for > the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution > by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended > recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. > > > _______________________________________________ > mpi3-subsetting mailing list > mpi3-subsetting_at_[hidden] > http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi3-subsetting *

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MPI subsetting: charting the way forward at a telecon next week?
by unknown＠example.com 03 Jun '08

03 Jun '08

Hi everybody, It looks to me that we're on subsetting crossroads at the moment. There was a lot of good analysis so far, but I'm afraid we're slow on moving towards comparably sized synthesis. On one hand, we have a rather well defined and strictly aimed proposal from Dick that might fit into MPI-2.2 framework and is somewhat related to subsetting. We also have a wider proposal from Jeff, which also has interesting repercussions in the client/MPI data exchange area, potentially usable well outside of the subsetting per se. On the other hand we have a lot of things coming into the standard in MPI-3, and still no clear way to manage this complexity and cater for special purpose MPI configurations that may be necessary for MPI to expand to new areas. Moreover, the meeting in Chicago showed that not everybody agrees that introducing flexibility or going beyond the traditional HPC is a good idea at all. On this backdrop, I'd suggest we should meet on the phone before the Forum gathering in Menlo Park, and try to develop a workable proposition how subsetting can find its way into the standard. I happen to have time for such a meeting on the following days next week: Tuesday, May 10, 2008, 8:00 am PDT/11:00 am EDT/17:00 CDT yes/no/plan B Wednesday, May 11, 2008, 8:00 am PDT/11:00 am EDT/17:00 CDT yes/no/plan B Thursday, May 12, 2008, 8:00 am PDT/11:00 am EDT/17:00 CDT yes/no/plan B Please reply as usual to me whether you can make any of these slots. Best regards. Alexander PS. This time I took special care to have a subsetting slot at the F2F meeting. :) -- Dr Alexander Supalov Intel GmbH Hermuelheimer Strasse 8a 50321 Bruehl, Germany Phone: +49 2232 209034 Mobile: +49 173 511 8735 Fax: +49 2232 209029 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Intel GmbH Dornacher Strasse 1 85622 Feldkirchen/Muenchen Germany Sitz der Gesellschaft: Feldkirchen bei Muenchen Geschaeftsfuehrer: Douglas Lusk, Peter Gleissner, Hannes Schwaderer Registergericht: Muenchen HRB 47456 Ust.-IdNr. VAT Registration No.: DE129385895 Citibank Frankfurt (BLZ 502 109 00) 600119052 This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. *

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Re: [Mpi3-subsetting] MPI3: Proposal to remove PMPI-Requirement
by unknown＠example.com 28 Apr '08

28 Apr '08

Thanks! -----Original Message----- From: Rainer Keller [mailto:keller_at_[hidden]] Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 8:44 PM To: mpi3-subsetting_at_[hidden] Cc: Supalov, Alexander Subject: Re: [Mpi3-subsetting] MPI3: Proposal to remove PMPI-Requirement Dear Alexander, On Friday 25 April 2008 19:57, Supalov, Alexander wrote: > Would you mind uploading your paper sent around on March 5 (see below) > to the MPI Subsetting Wiki > (http://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/wiki/SubsettingWikiPage)? Sure. Done, I put a short description under "Compile Time Selection" and a link to the preliminary document (a permanent web location)... Thanks, Rainer -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Dipl.-Inf. Rainer Keller http://www.hlrs.de/people/keller HLRS Tel: ++49 (0)711-685 6 5858 Nobelstrasse 19 Fax: ++49 (0)711-685 6 5832 70550 Stuttgart email: keller_at_[hidden] Germany AIM/Skype:rusraink --------------------------------------------------------------------- Intel GmbH Dornacher Strasse 1 85622 Feldkirchen/Muenchen Germany Sitz der Gesellschaft: Feldkirchen bei Muenchen Geschaeftsfuehrer: Douglas Lusk, Peter Gleissner, Hannes Schwaderer Registergericht: Muenchen HRB 47456 Ust.-IdNr. VAT Registration No.: DE129385895 Citibank Frankfurt (BLZ 502 109 00) 600119052 This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.

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Re: [Mpi3-subsetting] MPI3: Proposal to remove PMPI-Requirement
by unknown＠example.com 28 Apr '08

28 Apr '08

Dear Alexander, On Friday 25 April 2008 19:57, Supalov, Alexander wrote: > Would you mind uploading your paper sent around on March 5 (see below) > to the MPI Subsetting Wiki > (http://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/wiki/SubsettingWikiPage)? Sure. Done, I put a short description under "Compile Time Selection" and a link to the preliminary document (a permanent web location)... Thanks, Rainer -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Dipl.-Inf. Rainer Keller http://www.hlrs.de/people/keller HLRS Tel: ++49 (0)711-685 6 5858 Nobelstrasse 19 Fax: ++49 (0)711-685 6 5832 70550 Stuttgart email: keller_at_[hidden] Germany AIM/Skype:rusraink

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Re: [Mpi3-subsetting] no subset slot; action item I need your help with
by unknown＠example.com 26 Apr '08

26 Apr '08

I guess this was it. I simply don't have the time to organize and run this show myself. ________________________________ From: mpi3-subsetting-bounces_at_[hidden] [mailto:mpi3-subsetting-bounces_at_[hidden]] On Behalf Of Underwood, Keith D Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 6:47 PM To: MPI 3.0 Sub-setting working group Subject: Re: [Mpi3-subsetting] no subset slot;action item I need your help with I thought the proposal for the surveys was more to open one discussion area for the implementers and one discussion area for the users? Did someone have something more in mind? Keith ________________________________ From: mpi3-subsetting-bounces_at_[hidden] [mailto:mpi3-subsetting-bounces_at_[hidden]] On Behalf Of Supalov, Alexander Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2008 2:41 AM To: MPI 3.0 Sub-setting working group Subject: Re: [Mpi3-subsetting] no subset slot;action item I need your help with Hi, Draft report-out is available for comments, see http://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/attachment/wiki/SubsettingWi kiPage/MPI-3%20subsetting%2C%20take%202.pdf . Protected PDF is used to meet Intel Legal requirement for external publications. Updated proposal, see http://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/wiki/Subsets, cites Jeff's and Dick's MPI_Init ideas. Am looking for a link to Rainer's paper for the compile time subsetting section. If no-one will take on the surveys soon, we'll have to drop this idea. Best regards. Alexander ________________________________ From: Supalov, Alexander Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 9:13 PM To: 'MPI 3.0 Sub-setting working group' Subject: RE: no subset slot; action item I need your help with Hi everybody, I've done my action items to the best of ability and time available. See the updated proposal in the Wiki. Am still looking for a volunteer to organize the user and implementor surveys. I don't think we'll have a big report out - just a couple of slides on the real progress. I'll do them on the plane. See you in Chicago. Alexander ________________________________ From: Supalov, Alexander Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:10 PM To: 'MPI 3.0 Sub-setting working group' Subject: no subset slot; action item I need your help with Hi everybody, Due to scheduling constraints, we're not going to have a special subset slot during the coming MPI Forum meeting. For that we'll have about 2 hours to discuss MPI-3 structure where subsets should figure prominently. If there's interest to talk subsets beyond this opportunity, I suggest that we meet as a group at one of the dinners or 1:1 as we bump into each other. Now, the action items from the last telecon. I need your help on one of them: - Create two query pages - For users - what their minimum subset would look like (functionality, performance) - For implementors - what they can profit from (performance, footprint) I remember someone at the telecon had a very good suggestion about how to formulate this. Can you take over this task now? I'm about to engage on the following three and the final MPI-2.1 review: - Alexander will add the description of the complexity matter upfront to make readers see their favorite pain points - Alexander will add the existing laundry list of controllable features and ask for associated perf/footprint data - Alexander will prepare to participate in the MPI-3 structure discussion at the meeting Best regards. Alexander ________________________________ From: Supalov, Alexander Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 6:23 PM To: 'MPI 3.0 Sub-setting working group' Subject: RE: telecon, Wednesday, April 9, 8:00 am PDT/10:00 CDT/11:00 EDT/17:00 CEST Hi everybody, Thanks for your time today. Here's what we discussed (I captured what I could, please add/modify): Present: Richard Graham, David Gingold, Keith Underwood, Alexander Supalov - Opens - Discussion of the proposal (see http://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/wiki/Subsets) - Complexity needs to be defined. Discussion on the aspects: - Many people only use a few calls, don't need the rest; difficulty of learning is related to this - Sheer mass of the number of calls expected in MPI-3 may make complexity unmanageable, requires hierarchy - Performance implications are not considered primary motivation for subsetting, but removing them may help - E.g., extra cache effects may be induced by complexity (e.g., communicators) - This can in principle be defeated by prioritization of the hottest data fields - We'll add the existing laundry list of things that may affect performance - Inviting people to quantify the performance benefits may help to identify promising areas - We may need hard facts to gauge potential performance gains - We may need "fast stuff" subset people will safely be able to use - Making parts of the standard optional may be easier with subsets - Dynamic processes seem to be a good example - some may disagree - You may wait for the pull or create it; anyway, there's no big pull on this in the volume market yet - High end users are starting to use dynamic processes, though - Selection at compile- link-, and runtime - Compiler time is a little controversial, but there are already some measurements that quantify this - Link time comes in 3 forms - Static linker is smart and will pull out of the .a only those components the program uses - Dynamic linker is not smart, but there's chance to either - Do dlopen from within MPI to load extra modules (not everyone's favorite), or - Switch on/off parts of functionality in a bigger library - this is where runtime comes in - Runtime (MPI_Init and/or per-communicator basis) - E.g., disabling MPI_ANY_SOURCE on a communicator may speed up processing - Should a program that runs on a subset also run on a full MPI implementation? Probably, yes - There's need to convince the community that subsetting is a good idea, and portability will help - There should be one standard but flexibility for MPI to adapt to a particular set of applications - If applications are portable across MPI, they won't actually care of the rest of MPI - The shape of MPI-3 may be strongly influenced by subsets - The whole of the standard may be split into subsets, some of which might be optional - Vocal opponents may wrack subsets; we need hard data before we bring this matter up - Should subsets be predefined or should MPI provide a mechanism to define them - Think error handling: mechanism is there, as are several predefined handlers; this model works - Danger of proliferation of multiple mutually incompatible subsets will increase with the mechanism definition - Next steps - Alexander will add the description of the complexity matter upfront to make readers see their favorite pain points - Alexander will add the existing laundry list of controllable features and ask for associated perf/footprint data - Alexander create two query pages - For users - what their minimum subset would look like (functionality, performance) - For implementors - what they can profit from (performance, footprint) - Alexander will prepare to participate in the MPI-3 structure discussion at the meeting Best regards. Alexander ________________________________ From: Supalov, Alexander Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:26 PM To: 'MPI 3.0 Sub-setting working group' Subject: telecon, Wednesday, April 9, 8:00 am PDT/10:00 CDT/11:00 EDT/17:00 CEST Hi everybody, This is a reminder: the subsetting telecon will be held on Wednesday, April 9, 8:00 am PDT/10:00 CDT/12:00 EDT/17:00 CEST. The bridge details are as follows: Outside Intel: +1-916-356-2663, Inside Intel: 8-356-2663, Bridge: 5, Passcode: 2603880 The primary goal will be to go thru the draft proposal available in the Wiki (see http://svn.mpi-forum.org/trac/mpi-forum-web/wiki/Subsets) and to see what we can report to the Forum end of April. Please send to me additional agenda items you want to discuss. Best regards. Alexander -- Dr Alexander Supalov Intel GmbH Hermuelheimer Strasse 8a 50321 Bruehl, Germany Phone: +49 2232 209034 Mobile: +49 173 511 8735 Fax: +49 2232 209029 --------------------------------------------------------------------- Intel GmbH Dornacher Strasse 1 85622 Feldkirchen/Muenchen Germany Sitz der Gesellschaft: Feldkirchen bei Muenchen Geschaeftsfuehrer: Douglas Lusk, Peter Gleissner, Hannes Schwaderer Registergericht: Muenchen HRB 47456 Ust.-IdNr. VAT Registration No.: DE129385895 Citibank Frankfurt (BLZ 502 109 00) 600119052 This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Intel GmbH Dornacher Strasse 1 85622 Feldkirchen/Muenchen Germany Sitz der Gesellschaft: Feldkirchen bei Muenchen Geschaeftsfuehrer: Douglas Lusk, Peter Gleissner, Hannes Schwaderer Registergericht: Muenchen HRB 47456 Ust.-IdNr. VAT Registration No.: DE129385895 Citibank Frankfurt (BLZ 502 109 00) 600119052 This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. *

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