May 2010 - Mpi3-bwcompat - mailman3.cels.anl.gov

Re: [Mpi3-bwcompat] call minutes 2010.5.28
by unknown＠example.com 28 May '10

28 May '10

The short version here is: the Forum has hated all other approaches so far. So this is the returning to the "rip off the band aid" proposal. It puts us in the best position for the future and, all things being equal, may well be the proposal that sucks the least. I believe that we can have reasonable answers to all the negative points that have previously been raised against this proposal. We're not fixing the underlying problem (e.g., what do we do for the next MPI_COUNT-like issue that comes along), but it is a solid proposal for moving forward with MPI_COUNT. On May 28, 2010, at 5:18 PM, Fab Tillier wrote: > Attendees: Dave Goodell, Jeff Squyres, Fab Tillier > > - Failbook, Lamebook, and @BPGlobalPR good time sinks while waiting for folks to call in. > - Forum keeps going in circles on how to handle MPI_COUNT, enough so that David Solt gave up. > - Discussing this issue for quite some time (started in Portland last November as far as I know, maybe earlier.) > - No proposed solution has been satisfactory to the majority of forum members. > > Summary of proposed solutions to date (please help flush this out, as I am lacking context): > 1. Define MPI_COUNT only for MPI-IO functions. Rejected: needs some changes in MPI_Get_count, etc, which have ramifications on other APIs, or introduce new MPI_Get_count_xxx. > 2. Define MPI_COUNT for all functions. Rejected: why touch functions were a need hasn't been demonstrated (you can send more than 2^31 elements by creating datatypes.) > 3. Define MPI_COUNT for new functions that have some kind of suffix. Rejected: what is the proper suffix, how do you handle exponential growth when you introduce the next suffix, blows up API surface area. > > Action Items: > - Fab: Put together slides for June meeting (short on time, if everyone can send me or point me to slides related to this that were previously presented, please do.) > - Quincey, and everyone else: Make sure this is palatable to you > - Everyone: help Fab make a good presentation. :) > > Plan: > Propose MPI_COUNT for all functions, define MPI_COUNT as >= int, allowing backward compatibility while also allowing moving forward. No requirement to support either int or >int - that's an implementation choice. > > Benefits: > - lets implementers respond to customer demand without breaking backward compatibility for existing codes (ABI can be kept identical if MPI_COUNT defined as int.) > - keeps API surface area manageable for implementers that don't support MPI_COUNT > int. > > Disadvantages: > - doubles test surface area for implementers providing both int and > int implementations > - MPI_COUNT > int breaks F77? Jeff says we don't care, as there aren't any F77 compilers anymore, and the F90 and newer compilers are fine with this. > - doesn't set precedent for how to handle changes like this in the future. > > Questions: > - Do we allow implementations to provide both int and > int support simultaneously for Fortran using polymorphism? > > Jeff, Dave, please fill in if I've missed something. > -Fab > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mpi3-bwcompat mailing list > Mpi3-bwcompat_at_[hidden] > http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi3-bwcompat > -- Jeff Squyres jsquyres_at_[hidden] For corporate legal information go to: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/

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call minutes 2010.5.28
by unknown＠example.com 28 May '10

28 May '10

Attendees: Dave Goodell, Jeff Squyres, Fab Tillier - Failbook, Lamebook, and @BPGlobalPR good time sinks while waiting for folks to call in. - Forum keeps going in circles on how to handle MPI_COUNT, enough so that David Solt gave up. - Discussing this issue for quite some time (started in Portland last November as far as I know, maybe earlier.) - No proposed solution has been satisfactory to the majority of forum members. Summary of proposed solutions to date (please help flush this out, as I am lacking context): 1. Define MPI_COUNT only for MPI-IO functions. Rejected: needs some changes in MPI_Get_count, etc, which have ramifications on other APIs, or introduce new MPI_Get_count_xxx. 2. Define MPI_COUNT for all functions. Rejected: why touch functions were a need hasn't been demonstrated (you can send more than 2^31 elements by creating datatypes.) 3. Define MPI_COUNT for new functions that have some kind of suffix. Rejected: what is the proper suffix, how do you handle exponential growth when you introduce the next suffix, blows up API surface area. Action Items: - Fab: Put together slides for June meeting (short on time, if everyone can send me or point me to slides related to this that were previously presented, please do.) - Quincey, and everyone else: Make sure this is palatable to you - Everyone: help Fab make a good presentation. :) Plan: Propose MPI_COUNT for all functions, define MPI_COUNT as >= int, allowing backward compatibility while also allowing moving forward. No requirement to support either int or >int - that's an implementation choice. Benefits: - lets implementers respond to customer demand without breaking backward compatibility for existing codes (ABI can be kept identical if MPI_COUNT defined as int.) - keeps API surface area manageable for implementers that don't support MPI_COUNT > int. Disadvantages: - doubles test surface area for implementers providing both int and > int implementations - MPI_COUNT > int breaks F77? Jeff says we don't care, as there aren't any F77 compilers anymore, and the F90 and newer compilers are fine with this. - doesn't set precedent for how to handle changes like this in the future. Questions: - Do we allow implementations to provide both int and > int support simultaneously for Fortran using polymorphism? Jeff, Dave, please fill in if I've missed something. -Fab

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Re: [Mpi3-bwcompat] Meeting changed: MPI-3 backwards compatability WG
by unknown＠example.com 27 May '10

27 May '10

Hi all, On May 26, 2010, at 8:33 PM, Fab Tillier wrote: > I will try. I'm very interested in where this is going, but already have meetings from 9am-noon tomorrow, so I'll have to miss the live discussion. Please send notes from the decisions made though! Quincey > -Fab > > From: Jeff Squyres [mailto:jsquyres_at_[hidden]] > Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 5:52 AM > To: MPI-3 backwards compatability WG > Cc: Fab Tillier > Subject: Fwd: Meeting changed: MPI-3 backwards compatability WG > > This Friday at 10am (MPI-3 bwcompat WG meeting time), Fabian is going to lead us out of the morass of the MPI_Count debacle. > > Right Fabian? :-) > > Webex details below. > > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > From: "Jeff Squyres" <messenger_at_[hidden]> > Date: May 26, 2010 8:49:13 AM EDT > To: "Jeff Squyres (jsquyres)" <jsquyres_at_[hidden]> > Subject: Meeting changed: MPI-3 backwards compatability WG > Reply-To: "Jeff Squyres (jsquyres)" <jsquyres_at_[hidden]> > > Hello Jeff Squyres, > > Jeff Squyres changed the meeting information. > > Topic: MPI-3 backwards compatability WG > Date: Friday, May 28, 2010 > Time: 10:00 am, Eastern Daylight Time (New York, GMT-04:00) > Meeting Number: 208 148 487 > Meeting Password: mpi3 > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > To join the online meeting (Now from iPhones and other Smartphones too!) > ------------------------------------------------------- > 1. Go to https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/j.php?ED=141084817&UID=1323507052&PW=NMG… > 2. Enter your name and email address. > 3. Enter the meeting password: mpi3 > 4. Click "Join Now". > 5. Follow the instructions that appear on your screen. > > To view in other time zones or languages, please click the link: > https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/j.php?ED=141084817&UID=1323507052&PW=NMG… > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ALERT:Toll-Free Dial Restrictions for (408) and (919) Area Codes > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > The affected toll free numbers are: (866) 432-9903 for the San Jose/Milpitas area and (866) 349-3520 for the RTP area. > > Please dial the local access number for your area from the list below: > - San Jose/Milpitas (408) area: 525-6800 > - RTP (919) area: 392-3330 > > ------------------------------------------------------- > To join the teleconference only > ------------------------------------------------------- > 1. Dial into Cisco WebEx (view all Global Access Numbers at > http://cisco.com/en/US/about/doing_business/conferencing/index.html > 2. Follow the prompts to enter the Meeting Number (listed above) or Access Code followed by the # sign. > > San Jose, CA: +1.408.525.6800 RTP: +1.919.392.3330 > > US/Canada: +1.866.432.9903 United Kingdom: +44.20.8824.0117 > > India: +91.80.4350.1111 Germany: +49.619.6773.9002 > > Japan: +81.3.5763.9394 China: +86.10.8515.5666 > > ------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance > ------------------------------------------------------- > 1. Go to https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/mc > 2. On the left navigation bar, click "Support". > > You can contact me at: > jsquyres_at_[hidden] > 1-408-525 0971 > > To update this meeting to your calendar program (for example Microsoft Outlook), click this link: > https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/j.php?ED=141084817&UID=1323507052&ICS=UM… > > > WebEx will automatically setup Meeting Manager for Windows the first time you join a meeting. To save time, you can setup prior to the meeting by clicking this link: > https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/meetingcenter/mcsetup.php > > > The playback of UCF (Universal Communications Format) rich media files requires appropriate players. To view this type of rich media files in the meeting, please check whether you have the players installed on your computer by going to https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/systemdiagnosis.php > > http://www.webex.com > > CCP:+14085256800x208148487# > > IMPORTANT NOTICE: This WebEx service includes a feature that allows audio and any documents and other materials exchanged or viewed during the session to be recorded. By joining this session, you automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to the recording, do not join the session. > > > -- > Jeff Squyres > jsquyres_at_[hidden] > For corporate legal information go to: > http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/ > > _______________________________________________ > Mpi3-bwcompat mailing list > Mpi3-bwcompat_at_[hidden] > http://lists.mpi-forum.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/mpi3-bwcompat *

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Re: [Mpi3-bwcompat] Meeting changed: MPI-3 backwards compatability WG
by unknown＠example.com 26 May '10

26 May '10

I will try. -Fab From: Jeff Squyres [mailto:jsquyres_at_[hidden]] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 5:52 AM To: MPI-3 backwards compatability WG Cc: Fab Tillier Subject: Fwd: Meeting changed: MPI-3 backwards compatability WG This Friday at 10am (MPI-3 bwcompat WG meeting time), Fabian is going to lead us out of the morass of the MPI_Count debacle. Right Fabian? :-) Webex details below. Begin forwarded message: From: "Jeff Squyres" <messenger_at_[hidden]<mailto:messenger_at_[hidden]>> Date: May 26, 2010 8:49:13 AM EDT To: "Jeff Squyres (jsquyres)" <jsquyres_at_[hidden]<mailto:jsquyres_at_[hidden]>> Subject: Meeting changed: MPI-3 backwards compatability WG Reply-To: "Jeff Squyres (jsquyres)" <jsquyres_at_[hidden]<mailto:jsquyres_at_[hidden]>> Hello Jeff Squyres, Jeff Squyres changed the meeting information. Topic: MPI-3 backwards compatability WG Date: Friday, May 28, 2010 Time: 10:00 am, Eastern Daylight Time (New York, GMT-04:00) Meeting Number: 208 148 487 Meeting Password: mpi3 ------------------------------------------------------- To join the online meeting (Now from iPhones and other Smartphones too!) ------------------------------------------------------- 1. Go to <a href="https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/j.php?ED=141084817&UID=1323507052&PW=NMG…<https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/j.php?ED=141084817&UID=1323507052&PW=NMG…">https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/j.php?ED=141084817&UID=1323507052&PW=NMG…<https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/j.php?ED=141084817&UID=1323507052&PW=NMG…</a>==> 2. Enter your name and email address. 3. Enter the meeting password: mpi3 4. Click "Join Now". 5. Follow the instructions that appear on your screen. To view in other time zones or languages, please click the link: <a href="https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/j.php?ED=141084817&UID=1323507052&PW=NMG…<https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/j.php?ED=141084817&UID=1323507052&PW=NMG…">https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/j.php?ED=141084817&UID=1323507052&PW=NMG…<https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/j.php?ED=141084817&UID=1323507052&PW=NMG…</a>==> ---------------------------------------------------------------- ALERT:Toll-Free Dial Restrictions for (408) and (919) Area Codes ---------------------------------------------------------------- The affected toll free numbers are: (866) 432-9903 for the San Jose/Milpitas area and (866) 349-3520 for the RTP area. Please dial the local access number for your area from the list below: - San Jose/Milpitas (408) area: 525-6800 - RTP (919) area: 392-3330 ------------------------------------------------------- To join the teleconference only ------------------------------------------------------- 1. Dial into Cisco WebEx (view all Global Access Numbers at http://cisco.com/en/US/about/doing_business/conferencing/index.html 2. Follow the prompts to enter the Meeting Number (listed above) or Access Code followed by the # sign. San Jose, CA: +1.408.525.6800 RTP: +1.919.392.3330 US/Canada: +1.866.432.9903 United Kingdom: +44.20.8824.0117 India: +91.80.4350.1111 Germany: +49.619.6773.9002 Japan: +81.3.5763.9394 China: +86.10.8515.5666 ------------------------------------------------------- For assistance ------------------------------------------------------- 1. Go to https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/mc 2. On the left navigation bar, click "Support". You can contact me at: jsquyres_at_[hidden]<mailto:jsquyres_at_[hidden]> 1-408-525 0971 To update this meeting to your calendar program (for example Microsoft Outlook), click this link: https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/j.php?ED=141084817&UID=1323507052&ICS=UM… WebEx will automatically setup Meeting Manager for Windows the first time you join a meeting. To save time, you can setup prior to the meeting by clicking this link: https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/meetingcenter/mcsetup.php The playback of UCF (Universal Communications Format) rich media files requires appropriate players. To view this type of rich media files in the meeting, please check whether you have the players installed on your computer by going to https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/systemdiagnosis.php <a href="http://www.webex.com<http://www.webex.com/">http://www.webex.com<http://www.webex.com/</a>> CCP:+14085256800x208148487# IMPORTANT NOTICE: This WebEx service includes a feature that allows audio and any documents and other materials exchanged or viewed during the session to be recorded. By joining this session, you automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to the recording, do not join the session. -- Jeff Squyres jsquyres_at_[hidden]<mailto:jsquyres_at_[hidden]> For corporate legal information go to: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/ *

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Fwd: Meeting changed: MPI-3 backwards compatability WG
by unknown＠example.com 26 May '10

26 May '10

This Friday at 10am (MPI-3 bwcompat WG meeting time), Fabian is going to lead us out of the morass of the MPI_Count debacle. Right Fabian? :-) Webex details below. Begin forwarded message: > From: "Jeff Squyres" <messenger_at_[hidden]> > Date: May 26, 2010 8:49:13 AM EDT > To: "Jeff Squyres (jsquyres)" <jsquyres_at_[hidden]> > Subject: Meeting changed: MPI-3 backwards compatability WG > Reply-To: "Jeff Squyres (jsquyres)" <jsquyres_at_[hidden]> > > Hello Jeff Squyres, > > Jeff Squyres changed the meeting information. > > Topic: MPI-3 backwards compatability WG > Date: Friday, May 28, 2010 > Time: 10:00 am, Eastern Daylight Time (New York, GMT-04:00) > Meeting Number: 208 148 487 > Meeting Password: mpi3 > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > To join the online meeting (Now from iPhones and other Smartphones too!) > ------------------------------------------------------- > 1. Go to https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/j.php?ED=141084817&UID=1323507052&PW=NMG… > 2. Enter your name and email address. > 3. Enter the meeting password: mpi3 > 4. Click "Join Now". > 5. Follow the instructions that appear on your screen. > > To view in other time zones or languages, please click the link: > https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/j.php?ED=141084817&UID=1323507052&PW=NMG… > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ALERT:Toll-Free Dial Restrictions for (408) and (919) Area Codes > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > The affected toll free numbers are: (866) 432-9903 for the San Jose/Milpitas area and (866) 349-3520 for the RTP area. > > Please dial the local access number for your area from the list below: > - San Jose/Milpitas (408) area: 525-6800 > - RTP (919) area: 392-3330 > > ------------------------------------------------------- > To join the teleconference only > ------------------------------------------------------- > 1. Dial into Cisco WebEx (view all Global Access Numbers at > http://cisco.com/en/US/about/doing_business/conferencing/index.html > 2. Follow the prompts to enter the Meeting Number (listed above) or Access Code followed by the # sign. > > San Jose, CA: +1.408.525.6800 RTP: +1.919.392.3330 > > US/Canada: +1.866.432.9903 United Kingdom: +44.20.8824.0117 > > India: +91.80.4350.1111 Germany: +49.619.6773.9002 > > Japan: +81.3.5763.9394 China: +86.10.8515.5666 > > ------------------------------------------------------- > For assistance > ------------------------------------------------------- > 1. Go to https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/mc > 2. On the left navigation bar, click "Support". > > You can contact me at: > jsquyres_at_[hidden] > 1-408-525 0971 > > To update this meeting to your calendar program (for example Microsoft Outlook), click this link: > https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/j.php?ED=141084817&UID=1323507052&ICS=UM… > > > WebEx will automatically setup Meeting Manager for Windows the first time you join a meeting. To save time, you can setup prior to the meeting by clicking this link: > https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/meetingcenter/mcsetup.php > > > The playback of UCF (Universal Communications Format) rich media files requires appropriate players. To view this type of rich media files in the meeting, please check whether you have the players installed on your computer by going to https://cisco.webex.com/ciscosales/systemdiagnosis.php > > http://www.webex.com > > CCP:+14085256800x208148487# > > IMPORTANT NOTICE: This WebEx service includes a feature that allows audio and any documents and other materials exchanged or viewed during the session to be recorded. By joining this session, you automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to the recording, do not join the session. -- Jeff Squyres jsquyres_at_[hidden] For corporate legal information go to: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/ *

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