Sriram, As I understand it, our effort aims at making the MPI library useable after failures, and fault tolerant applications possible above the MPI standard. When mixing multiple communication models, the application will have to do the extra work needed to keep the system view "in sync", as we must do this work in the MPI library to keep MPI processes in sync one with each others. I agree with you that the hardest part, if you are dealing with multiple libraries that tolerate failures, is to coordinate them, by deciding, at the application level, which one is responsible for restarting processes, then do all the necessary work to re-init or mend the other libraries with the new process. In your example, the MPI implementation would restart the failed processes, mend the communicators, obtain all necessary information for mending the ARMCI library (including new hostnames), etc... This is theoretically possible in our proposal. Or do you see something missing? The converse is also possible in our proposal: the ARMCI library could detect the failure, other ways could be used to launch the missing processes, and the new processes would call MPI_Init, and use an MPI_connect / MPI_accept scheme to connect the two wolrds and let the application behave as before the failure. The point for me here is that this is a decision of the fault-tolerant application. Thus, MPI-3.0 should provide what is necessary for the application to do that, but not do it for the application. Do you think there is a missing API / functionality in the current proposal that prevent this kind of scenario? Bests, Thomas Le 12 f�vr. 09 � 21:30, Krishnamoorthy, Sriram a �crit :

Thomas,

Consider an application that uses both MPI and another communication library, say ARMCI. The application requires both to be fault- resilient. If a failure identified by one library can be notified by the other in some fashion, both can stay in sync with respect to their view of the processes and which faults have been observed. This does not have to collective, with each process having a possibly different view.

If the communication libraries are not in sync, MPI can handle failures whenever an MPI communication is involved. However, the other communication library might need a mechanism to determine (possibly without co-operation from other processes) whether the process-view of the system has changed -- whether a new communicator should be used, a failed process has been replaced by another one, etc.

For example, with the FT-MPI-like model where a failed process is replaced by another, ARMCI would at least need the hostname of the new process to repair its state.

Sriram.K

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Message: 2 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 16:07:41 -0500 From: Thomas Herault <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Mpi3-ft] Fault recovery of multiple communication libraries To: "MPI 3.0 Fault Tolerance and Dynamic Process Control working Group" <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Hello,

We have not considered mixed communication models yet, and I am not sure we need to do so. Let's call A the process that fails, and B the set of processes that should be notified. Consider the two following cases: - A also uses MPI to communicate with processes from B. Then, when a process from B tries to communicate with A, it will be notified by MPI of the error - A does not use MPI to communicate with processes from B. Then, the application does not need help from MPI to deal with the failure: MPI is not broken, thus does not have to be mended.

Thomas

Le 12 f?vr. 09 ? 14:46, Krishnamoorthy, Sriram a ?crit :

...

I would like to understand how MPI can be notified of a failure. Consider another communication library (ARMCI/GASnet/...) identifying a failure through its own mechanisms. In the current model, how can it

...

notify MPI to verify/reconfigure/recover from the error, for example by performing an MPI communication to the failed process?

Conversely, can a communication library register to be notified of an error that MPI identifies and recovers from, so that that the library can take appropriate action?

Sriram.K

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